Is The Book Of Moses From The Brass Plates?

Recent scholarship by Noel B. Reynolds and Jeff Lindsay highlights passages in the Book of Mormon that parallel those in the Book of Moses. Since the Book of Mormon authors are pulling from the Brass Plates, this implies that the Book of Moses may be the Genesis of the Brass Plates.

This is a segment from a full episode interviewing Jeff Lindsay on the lost Book of Gad The Seer.

 Raw Transcript

yeah and I want to just just a small
tangent here i know that you have been
working
on also studying Moses and the Book of
Mormon the Book of Moses and the Book of
Mormon and looking at a comparison i
think it at one point I think I remember
you saying something to the effect of
there are or maybe it was null that uh
maybe you found a hundred different
words or phrases that were in the Book
of Moses not in the Bible but are in the
Book of Mormon couple years ago I was uh
working on an article kind of a rebuttal
to a um a a Latter-day Saint who was
kind of what some people might call a c
cultural Latter- Day Saint and felt like
ah the scriptures don't take don't take
them too seriously book of Mormon Joseph
Smith made it up that kind of thing and
so he he had he had written that um you
could tell the Book of Mormon couldn't
be true because it talks about the
Exodus and like 1 Nephi 4:2 he cited
specifically Nephi tells his brethren
let's be strong like Moses uh who led
the Israelites across the the sea and he
said really now the whole story of the
Exodus he said that came later after the
Persian exile and they kind of made all
this up to give some gravitas to their
history and scholars have already
figured this out that could there was no
such thing I really took objection to
that I mean certainly there are scholars
who say that but there are very fine
biblical scholars who who brought forth
significant evidence for the antiquity
of the Exodus whatever it was however it
happened but they there was an escape
from Egypt they brought with them
Egyptian words and knowledge that dates
back to that period and there's all
sorts of great things that good scholars
have done but so and I'm I'm responding
to him trying to cite some of this but
as I deal dig into First Nephi 4:2 it
strikes me that this is kind of a
strange verse nephi is telling his
brothers "Be strong like Moses." And yet
when you read about Moses in the Old
Testament the word strong is never
associated with him in fact when they
have this big battle he's got to hold up
his staff and maybe it weighed 10 lbs 15
pounds I don't know but he needs to get
two people to stand by his side to help
him hold this up for a prolonged time
certainly not easy but it's not like he
was some kind of really you know buff
person lift hundreds of pounds he was
getting on age and he was not strong but
the word strong is used with Pharaoh
it's used with various enemies it's used
with the hand of the Lord it's used with
various prophets but not Moses so I was
thinking Nephi seems to be referring to
something that his brothers would
obviously recognize but I can't find
that in the Bible i wonder where that
came from and shortly after that I ran
into this article at that time just I
ran into an article by N reynolds and it
was called the brass plates version of
Genesis it's now been it was from a book
that was hard to get and it's since been
republished by interpreter just uh last
year I think to make it easier or maybe
two years ago to make it easier for
people to access it's a fascinating
article he did a computer study of of
the language in the Book of Moses
compared it to the Book of Mormon and it
was just trying to explore possible
interextuality but to his surprise he
found lots of words where that were that
were unique that weren't found in the
Old Testament or the New Testament
excuse me the Bible they weren't really
standard KGB words uh with some
exceptions but that and he also noted
that these similarities this
language seem to have a one-way
direction of influence now the direction
of influence if you're thinking in a
naturalistic way if there's
interextuality between these two texts
it's pretty easy to know how that
happened Joseph Smith wrote the Book of
Mormon got familiar with Book of Mormon
text whether you think it was divine or
Joseph Smith made it up the text was
from his work in the 18 1829 wrapped up
then and then later about a year later
he starts doing the Book of Moses all
those nice Book of Mormon terms fresh in
his head some of them pop out get reused
regurgitated so you expect there to be
some flow of Book of Mormon language
into the Book of Moses sure what
astonished Null Reynolds was he saw in
several cases clear evidence that the
flow of influence went the other way as
if Book of Mormon writers were
referencing a motherload of more
detailed information somewhere else that
we should be familiar with and one
really dramatic case occurs in First
Nephi 16:48 this is where Nephi's
brothers are getting really rebellious
they're not working or helping him and
in fact they're they're making
complaints about him and Layman
complains Nephi you you're you're just
really an evil guy he's saying you're
you're blinding us you're deceiving us
you're trying to lead us away to be
captive to your crazy ideas and and uh
that's why we don't like you." And Nephi
writes all that down well what's really
interesting is in Moses 4:4 which is
related to the Genesis story and and
related to Genesis 3 uh we get a lot
more information about Satan it's just
kind of a very not even mentioned just
the serpent in Genesis 3 but get we're
learning about Satan in Moses 4 and
Satan is described as this evil very
evil person who um does the very things
that layman accuses Nephi of he blinds
us he deceives us he's the father of
lies who wants to lead us away captive
at at his will and this description has
been reworked by layman to accuse Nephi
and when we when we see that he doesn't
come out and say "You're satanic." But
the implication in using that language
is Nephi you're satanic you're evil
that's why we're justified in opposing
you and maybe even killing you because
you are deservant of the evil one that
complaint so ironic is written down by
by Nephi and by understanding the
intertextuality we see an illusion being
made to something to to a text that
Joseph Smith wouldn't produce for over a
year and this is a fascinating thing
there are many cases where the book of
Moses serves as the motherload of
information for terms like secret
combinations and all the stuff related
to the oaths and covenants and satanic
conspiracies and were secret works of
darkness but also many other things in
involving Christ and salvation and
revelation well null found 33 elements
and when I ran into First Nephi 4:2 and
was puzzled over it and I saw that
article from Nephi I said "Wow that's an
interesting from N." Reynolds I saw no
Reynolds article i said "I wonder what
if wouldn't it be cool if Nephi were
actually referring to something on a"
and and and know null's thesis was there
might be something on the in the on the
brass plates that was like our modern
book of Moses maybe in the version of
Genesis on the brass plates might have
more complete information so he
hypothesized that the brass plates may
have had a brass plates version of the
book of Moses and he called it the brass
plates version of Genesis and uh 33
examples he had some of which had
one-way influence so looked like he was
alluding to something he hadn't written
yet of Joseph Smith was the author
that's really hard to do so I said I
what if and as I open up Moses one and
by the time I got to the end of Moses
one I had found three cases where
strength was associated with with Moses
but especially I believe it was verse 25
where the Lord tells Moses I will make
you stronger than many waters and he
will lead the people across those waters
that looks like the verse that Nephi was
alluding to in 1 Nephi 4:2 there's the
backstory the Lord promising Moses I
will make you strong stronger than many
waters and so let's be Well in that case
then Jeff they're there they're they're
both sides are are are referencing the
same work because if you're saying that
layman is is is referencing things that
are said in Moses about Satan and using
those words to apply them to Nephi then
Nephi is retorting with let us be strong
like unto Moses so they're both pulling
from the same overall story that retort
came first but what's what's interesting
uh I didn't get to this part until
recently this art this article I've
published several articles on this right
now I've collaborated with null I
reached out to n Reynolds and we started
collaborating we did a we did a couple
of papers we did a presentation at a
fair conference uh well this was some of
this was first introduced in a fair
conference uh presentation a couple
years ago uh actually three or four
years ago but uh and through
collaboration with null Reynolds and
just continuing uh examining different
verses right now we are at almost 150 I
think the official number is 146
examples of language in the book of
Moses that is found in related context
and often in informative or meaningful
ways and sometimes in weak ways not all
of it solid I'll admit that but some
gives where and in many cases is many
cases what's in the Book of Moses
provides the backstory that gives
meaning and context and added nuance to
what the Book of Mormon is doing that's
very difficult to write a book where you
have all these illusions to things that
haven't been written yet to stories that
haven't been crafted yet because the
Book of Moses came after the Book of
Mormon so the some of these I I I I just
love like this encounter of Alma and Amu
in and with the at Ammoniah Ammoniah
some of the language they use and just
like oh my goodness there's real subtle
knife twisting going on when you realize
the illusions being pulled from this
book of Moses that hadn't been written
as Joseph dictated this from a hat wow
so I I really it's gotten it's been
really fascinating to me and what was
really interesting this my the latest
work in response to some questions
others have asked um if this was if this
was random you know it's just Joseph
sharing common language from his
environment and just spitting it out you
would expect it to be scattered through
the Book of Mormon pretty
randomly and what we see instead is a
very strong pattern where the number of
illusions per chapter or per book or
however you want to do it there's a few
different mathematical ways of doing
this i've got some charts that'll be
published um Nephi was the master nephi
had very high concentration of
references to Book of Moses themes and
concepts and his brother Jacob also and
Lehi when he's speaking in in Second
Nephi 1 boy he's just zinger zinger
zinger all sorts of things coming out of
Lehi Jacob and Nephi and then it kind of
drops off and when we get into Messiah
for example like like you hit the record
of Zenith zilch there's nothing in this
whole story going on until Benadai
starts speaking and and dealing with
scripture and and themes of Christ and
salvation then he's got suddenly there's
a burst going on and Alma when he's
preaching Alma was another great student
of the brass plates because he he refers
to them many times in his in his
teaching and Alma's Alma's quotations
are often thick with references but
Nephi has the highest concentration very
closely followed by Jacob and then you
get down to like Omni low really low
what's really surprising Mormon who we
knew ran into them and and and they
influenced him um but he has his
writings have actually fairly low
compared to Nephi like half as as
frequent use or reference to to Book of
Moses themes but this the the
mathematical distribution of references
to the book of Moses has a tells another
story that that makes sense it's
consistent with who knew the brass
plates who wasn't that familiar with it
who didn't know them at all and it just
fits it's really fascinating yeah and
that goes back also to another work that
null's been working on and that that is
the DNA of of the scribal schools
between Manasseh and Judah because when
you go through that you see that there
are really two different lines of
scripture
that uh are unfolding before us and and
we are heirs to the Judahite scribal
school that probably began much
later and and that's what we have in the
Old Testament and yet the Manasse
scribal school Lehi brings the brass
plates which is different it's got
different things and so you have to ask
yourself as far as the lamb of God goes
was this more of a title and something
that was introduced in a Manassi
tradition under Joseph as as a term for
Christ and and and if if the black Jews
had a
Manassite
heritage as was uh uh shared with uh
Alexander Hamilton the the naval the
naval uh uh was he a naval officer i
don't know but he Yes yes he was then
then you say okay well maybe that would
come down with gad the seer and this is
terminology that would be found more in
that Josephite
tradition right Ephraimite Manassite
tradition as compared to a Judite
tradition in there it's interesting also
you know because I'm think I'm thinking
about this as you're
talking and you know in in first Nephi
11 you have the angelic host that comes
down talks to Nephi and explains to him
what the tree of life is out and that is
where he brings up the angel the angelic
host brings up the lamb of God I believe
first there and and so you've got the
lamb of God and then he goes on to give
him not only an explanation of the tree
of life but this apocalyptic uh uh well
this
prophecy of his own people of the
Gentiles of the nations here in in the
Americas and and then at the end he says
says "Well here's where you have to stop
i'm going to show you the rest but you
can't write any more of
this." So you've got this lamb of God
theme coming through Nephi's vision and
then he says "Stop here." And then you
get he says "The rest of this will be
produced by my servant John." I think he
says "Servant John." Yes yes well John
continues it on with the lamb of God of
God yes that's really interesting and
and in all that it's it's good to note
that one of the other very ancient from
my point of view ancient references to
the lamb to the lamb uh or implicitly
lamb of God is in Moses 7:47 which
refers to the lamb slain before the
foundation of the world and as a
reference to Christ so the lamb Christ
as the lamb was on the brass plates if
if something like the book of Moses was
on there and in my opinion the 150
roughly 150 parallels that provide
significant meaning and clue to guide
readers on the meanings of these this
interextuality between the Book of Moses
and Book of Mormon required conscious
choice of whoever provided the English
words God or someone he appointed how it
was done we don't know but there was it
looks like there was a deliberate choice
to
maintain markers to show this phrase
this phrase they're the same do you see
the connection and those connections
unfold numerous stories and insights
that can deepen our appreciation for the
scriptures so to me it's an incredible
miracle that that the Book of Mormon
could be dictated with all the internal
consistency it has yet with different
styles and agendas from the different
authors that show different people were
involved and now you get to the Book of
Mormon given a year later the Book of
Moses excuse me started a year later and
we get stories that provide stories and
words and language that provides the
backstory and the source that these
illusions were pointing to the whole
time that's mindblowing and to me it
provides it provides an easy to see
fundamental argument for the divinity of
both texts at the same time which is
really strange but if I'm wrong I I'd
like someone to help me see that because
it's No that's fascinating