Many Latter-Day Saints Say Gay Marriage Will Happen in the Temple

Sky Sorensen is concerned, as am I, that many in the church are preaching that the church will "change" marriage. That same-sex marriage WILL happen in the temple. This becomes very confusing to gay Latter-day Saints. Many grab onto this vision of "hope in change" over "hope in Christ."

Sky experiences same-sex attraction. He prefers that description over "gay." He is happily married to a woman and has children with her.

 Raw Transcript

so if you're a gay man or you're a man
who experiences same-sex attraction what
do you do if you want to be a member of
the church how do you work between that
gap of a seemingly different lifestyle
that you might want to follow that you
feel you should follow or that culture
tells you that you should follow or
following the commandments of the Lord
and following the the guidance of the
prophets and the order of the family sky
Sorenson is a man uh that experiences
same-sex attraction but he's a member of
the church he is married to a woman he
has uh children a father he's a father
and a husband and is very grateful for
those roles and the opportunity that he
has to uh experience that he also
believes that a false hope in num a
number of different individuals in the
church that are trying to tell people
hey just don't worry about it we're
going to get this changed we're going to
change marriage in the temple he
believes that this is a real problem for
especially for young gay Latter-day
Saints who are confused and uh that this
can draw them down the wrong path so
we're going to talk about that this
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[Music]
go
right welcome to Quick Show my name is
Greg Matson and I am your host in this
episode we bring back Sky Sornson to
talk about LGBTQ issues within the
church the narratives that are being put
out there the dangers the pitfalls and
true doctrine sky welcome back to the
show thanks for having me back good to
be here sky you recently just a couple
days ago you put out an episode talking
about this exact problem of what I call
a hope in change versus a hope in Christ
um just a a false narrative
about the doctrine of the family and
about the law of chastity will you kind
of just surmise real quickly what you uh
what you talked about in that episode
yeah so it's a video series uh I'm doing
called Sit Down with Sky Faith Promoting
LGBTQ conversations uh it's my third
video from this series it i used to do a
podcast with my friend Preston who is
also um a gay latter-day saint or
experiences samesex attraction um and is
in a mixed orientation marriage we did
that for a while and then my wife came
on and my wife and I did that for a
while and now I'm doing more of a video
series for YouTube um and this one
specifically I wanted to address uh the
common approach to LGBTQ issues that I
see from some Latter-day Saints where um
like you mentioned it's it's kind of
more of a hope in a certain outcome
rather than a hope in Christ and the
certain outcome that they are pushing um
is that maybe or sometimes it's
certainly the the doctrine on the family
will eventually change um and so I just
kind of break down how debilitating that
that mindset or that narrative can be
especially for sexual minority Latter-
Day Saints um who are trying to navigate
these waters are trying to reconcile
their samesex attraction with their
faith in God and go full steam ahead in
the gospel um I if there's this
narrative that you know maybe one day
this core principle this this core
doctrine of the of the church is going
to change how are we supposed to move
forward with any sort of certainty any
sort of confidence in the covenant path
with that sort of hanging over our heads
so that's the main premise of that video
yeah and and and it's coming from a
sincere place though right i mean you've
got you've got people that sympathize
with individuals that have same-sex
attraction uh they're trying to
strengthen them you might even be a
parent right and you've got this this
issue here of how do I fill this gap
between how my child feels or how my
friend feels or how my friend's child
feels or my friend feels and and this
law of chastity thing and this order of
the family and so if I affirm more
the presumed identity or inclinations of
that individual than I do the doctrine
or the law of chastity or the doctrine
of the family then I'm I'm still showing
sympathy right and and so I think I
think it's I think it's from a it's what
I usually call you know untethered
empathy it's it's a it's an empathetic
approach but it can be very debilitating
yeah and you know at an emotional level
I fully understand why Latter-day Saints
might do this if if someone that you
love is struggling with something and
either they explicitly say you know so
so say you have a loved one who
experiences samesex attraction and is
struggling with that that sort of
wrestle of reconciling um if you if you
have that say a ch a child or a brother
or whoever it may be um and whether or
not they explicitly say it's the church
that is harming me you might go to that
um you might make that assumption and I
fully understand that sort of
inclination or that you know wanting to
do that because if someone we love is
hurting we want to find something to
blame we want to alleviate whatever pain
they're going through um so I I fully
get it but I think it is um untethered
compassion i like that um that phrase
it's it's wanting to it's blaming the
wrong thing i guess the gospel is I I
don't think it's a barrier to our
happiness i think it is the path to get
us there no matter what we're going
through your video that you put out is
specifically it says it's about a faith
crisis for teenagers and so and you kind
of put yourself in that scenario what if
I was a few years ago this narrative was
really swirling around and I was younger
and and and questioning myself and
questioning the church and you know it's
it's uh I I think where we try to affirm
and we try to strengthen someone or
alleviate the pain as you say the the
problem is
is you you might actually be increasing
the pain i I think you know you might
act for for individuals that want to be
faithful it you you could be increasing
the pain
of it's it's kind of like you're putting
someone into this perpetual motion of of
wanting that change to happen so there's
advocating for it there might even be
activism for it um and looking for
something down the road instead of live
your life follow the order follow the
commandments and and and strive to love
God right because there's I I don't
think you can do both you're eventually
going to have to decide it seems to me
am I am I going to sit in that perpetual
hope of change
um maybe live a different lifestyle in
the meantime because hey this is going
to change anyway it might even I think
you bring this up it might even lead me
to that lifestyle more or earlier if I
think well they're going to change this
anyway yeah i mean I I didn't grow up
with this sort of narrative as as a
common talking point but I I I really I
don't know if I can imagine or if I
can't imagine like I don't know which
way to go to to address it but I really
think that would have been a really
debilitating message to hear growing up
cuz I when I pictured my life as a teen
I like my my future i always imagined a
a a wife and a family an eternal family
i always wanted that but there was
obviously this pull to pursue other guys
that's that's the nature of samesex
attraction and with my sort of more
limited understanding of the gospel
um I I think if that was a predominant
narrative that maybe the doctrine would
change i don't know if I would have been
able to rise above that temptation with
that sort of dangling carrot hanging
over my head i um I know
that when in the video I I quote um or I
play a clip from church historian Steve
Harper who who made this point and he
was making it um relating to Joseph
Smith and his life but it still applies
I think in this situation when we when
our actions don't align with our beliefs
we feel a level of discomfort and
tension
um within like it's it's hard to feel
any sort of peace when our our actions
don't align with our beliefs and so we
will do something to to bring those
together whether it is um changing our
actions or whether it is leaving our
beliefs and I think we see um both both
examples of that within the church um
fortunately and unfortunately what about
with where the church is today Sky so
you've got you know it's it's
interesting because we talk differently
about issues today than we used to when
I was younger even your age uh the
church talks differently about it it's
not brought up much um when it is it's
always on a positive note of you know
this is the law of chastity this is the
this is the order of the family do you
think and obviously we're both
sustaining members of the church right
we sustain the brethren everything else
do you think though the church is is
doing this in the right way is there
anything else that could be done to help
individuals that find themselves in that
gap
it's a good question i I would say that
I would always obviously I'd always
welcome more uh direction more clarity
more what more resources whatever it may
be but I actually really think that the
our our prophets and apostles uh have
been really clear as to what the
doctrine says and what it means and how
you know what we need to do in order to
live a covenant life i also don't think
their job is to give us a bullet point
list of what we can and cannot do
specifically I think with the
conversation of
LGBTQ there's been some kind of muddying
in the waters from some church members
wondering is it okay if um you hold
hands with someone of the same sex or go
on a date like what is the sort of line
or how close can we get to that and I I
think that is such that's a wrong way to
live the gospel i think if we are truly
wanting to commit ourselves uh to a
covenant life if we're wanting to
develop a relationship with our savior
the question shouldn't be am I still
okay to do X Y or Z and still be within
reach of you know whatever I'm trying to
achieve the question should be how close
can I get to the Savior how much can I
emulate him how far away from the line
can I get and I um so yeah I all this to
say I I would always welcome more
clarity but I I think the
clarity from the top has been crystal
clear it it's been members of the church
who have attempted to sort of muddy
these waters and make things more
confusing which I I personally have seen
um uh samesex attracted Latter- Day
Saints wrestling with this sort of
struggle more than I think is necessary
because of that muddying of the waters
that you see sometimes from church
members you know I even have I mean
today this is something that would never
would have happened a number of years
ago but um I have friends good friends
that have gay kids and their kids have
decided to live a gay lifestyle they've
gotten married same-sex marriage and and
these are even um like conservative
parents right they're fairly
conservative parents that I mean not all
of them but I but some of them are even
conservative parents you might think of
as
as orthodox right and and but they
are in in in supporting their kids and I
can't stand in their feet I don't have a
gay child I I'm not you know I can't
stand in their feet or in their shoes
but I don't
what they are they actually go to the
point of of
saying "Look this is the same thing as
as a as a man and a woman there is no
difference the church is going to change
this um I love my son or my daughter and
I'm going to go ahead and support them
in what they're doing and
um and eventually the church is going to
change." And and this is you know this
isn't just like some fringe member these
are these are people that have been
lifetime members these are families that
are very solid in the church they're
very active in the
church what What would you say to a
parent who has a child that is
experiencing samesex attraction that
lives a gay lifestyle how do you deal
with that how how do how do you work
through that by you know obviously
offering all the love that you can of a
parent and at the same time trying to
stick to truth yeah that is that is
something that I have personally seen as
well um good stalwart members of the
church who in an effort to love their
child um become what Elder Elder Corp
talked about uh this this topic he said
um don't become activists against the
church in order to love your child that
that's um I if you believe that this is
the restored church of Jesus Christ this
is where his covenants are this is where
the path is that leads us back to our
father in heaven and our savior and and
all of that if you believe that um why
would you I guess enable something
enable a life course for someone that
you love that moves them off of that
path why you know why would you do that
and again at a at an emotional level I I
fully understand and I think that we can
maintain relationships with our loved
ones we can support them in so many ways
that doesn't
um doesn't undermine the doctrine and
doesn't push people off or enable enable
them in in certain directions everyone
has their agency uh and we we have the
you know the directive to love
regardless of the choices that people
make but we are still meant to
um be you know a light on the hill and
to be an advocate for truth and I think
if we do truly love someone I I like
Thomas St thomas Aquinas's definition of
love it's to will the good in the other
if we truly love someone we want them to
pursue that which will bring them the
most joy and bring about the best
version of themsel and I think you know
as a believing member of the church I I
believe that is the covenant path and
again we're all on our sort of journeys
and twists and turns and not everyone
has the same understanding or the same
opportunities and there's messiness in
life i get that but we can still be a
light on a hill we can still be
advocates for truth and do everything
that we can to bring others and keep
others within that covenant path
now Scott you've got a wife you've got
kids you're you you have you experience
samesex attraction um is this for
everyone that has that that that feels
samesex attraction is that is that what
they should be doing is that the choice
to go go with in their lives there's a
lot of people that are going to push
against that that do push against that
um maybe they're not being as you said
their authentic selves and they have a
difficult time in living a different
lifestyle than some would say they they
are even born into right
um what do you say about that I I always
want to say yes absolutely like if you
experience samesex attraction get
married in the temple and that's going
to that's going to be your best route I
want to say that because of the level of
joy and satisfaction that I've
personally experienced with that but I
also recognize that just like marriage
may not be
um an option for everyone in this life
regardless of you know samesex
attraction or not mhm um I think that
also applies to those who who do
experience samesex attraction marriage
to someone of the opposite sex may not
be something that is in the cards for
you in this life and I think that's a
really hard painful difficult thing to
to grapple with but I do also think that
uh this is a point that I've heard um
Tai Mansfield make before he's he's
another voice in this sort of space
um he's made the point but that you know
Christ didn't say in marriage our joy
will be full or in our children our joy
will be full what he said was that in me
your joy will be full and that doesn't
mean that an eternal marriage is not
part of the picture in leading us back
to um our heavenly father and receiving
all that the father hath i think that's
part of the p piece you know that's one
of the pieces of the puzzle that will
eventually be put into place whether in
this life or the next um but regardless
I think we can still have a
fulfilling joyful life on the covenant
path whether that does include marriage
in this in this life or whether it does
not so I was speaking with Timber Harard
who you know and and uh you know he had
had some people criticizing him I mean
for being married and having kids and I
just think to myself the g you know to
do this i I do do you as if as if the
feelings and the relationship that he
has with his wife are to be devalued or
or the opportunity for him to be a
husband and a
father it should be devalued and and
removed from him right that that's what
I don't quite understand again I'm not
in that position but I
I I I you know there's your sexuality
but then there's I can't imagine not
being a father i can't imagine not being
a husband right and whether you have
samesex marriage or or samesex
attraction or not those relationships
are precious you know they they are
they're everything and and to kick
against
that for for those like yourself that
have chosen this i I don't understand it
i I don't I don't get how someone can do
that i'm with you there i I'm constantly
surprised at the I I've had a good
number of people uh just just commenting
on things um saying something to the
effect of you know I'll come back in 10
years and and this guy's going to
divorce his wife or when are you going
to finally live your truth and u stop
lying to yourself and leave your wife
and I I just I can't imagine um saying
that to a stranger online encouraging
encouraging them to break up their
family um I you know we have two we have
three children two living two daughters
and um if they truly understood the
effect of me breaking up my family what
that would be I at least hope they
wouldn't say things like that i You're
right it is it is such a blessing and
I'm I am so fortunate and um love my
family obviously and um feel very
blessed to have such a loving fulfilling
relationship with Amanda my wife and and
and our children um and again like I
said I I think we can have joy with if
if that is not in the cards for us but I
am very grateful that I do have my
children and and like you said can't
imagine life without them just today um
we were trying to explain the the
resurrection to our three-year-old
daughter and it's kind of hard to
explain you know Christ he he died for
us and then he came back to life and
it's kind of difficult to understand so
we didn't know how she was going to take
it um but she just kind of paused for a
second and lit up and said "That is a
that is a what a beautiful story." And
that was just one of those one of those
moments in parenthood that is just so
fulfilling and and so amazing and
beautiful when you're when something
clicks in your child's mind and you see
their their eyes light up and there
there's just so much joy to having a
family and I I wouldn't trade it for for
anything yeah and I think there's also
something to say about you know our
culture has moved into a position where
we're all about your authentic self your
rights and those things are all
important fine
but why can't your authentic self be as
a husband and a father wh what why is
that not a truth why is that not
authentic right you're built to be a
father you're you're built to be a
husband you know and it's uh
I and in place of rights and and my own
truth there is always
responsibility that really brings the
joy i think that the responsibility over
other human beings you know I've got
kids they're all out of the house now i'
I've got four kids
and
that with along with my wife that brings
me more joy than anything else it It's
not It's not me trying to If I was my
authentic self I would not be monogamous
i would not be just with my wife right i
I would I would I would be out and about
but there's nothing that brings more joy
to me than than having a family and and
being a husband and being a father and
taking on that responsibility and taking
on that role and I think that's you know
I think we remove that sometimes out of
out of that that target of of where
we're going of the objective of what
we're trying to accomplish and it's uh
um and I understand there's a mix of
feelings there and and and and I you
know identity even but you know as as
President Nelson says number one is
child of God child of the covenant and
disciple of Christ and and if we zero in
on those
things I I think it's I think it's tough
to go wrong yeah may maybe maybe maybe
let me make just a distinction there too
i think people uh talk a lot about
authentic your authentic self and what
that means and there there's kind of
this understanding that if you
experience samesex attraction or
identify as gay um the only way to be
authentic to yourself is to purs pursue
the life course typically typically
associated with samesex attraction which
is you know a samesex relationship so I
I truly feel that I am living my
authentic self right now you know if I
were to
um if I were to zero in on just one
aspect of myself which is my sexuality
um and I were to kind of go back in time
and look at life through just that that
tiny view you know that tiny pinhole um
in order to be like quote unquote
authentic and pursue a relationship to
another man I think I would have been
able to find some level of joy or
fulfillment in that but
um if I could I don't know where I just
look at where I am right now and and um
where I could have been and it's a
no-brainer in my head i I feel like
where I am now is authentic to myself
and if I were to break up my family if I
were to pursue um like you know leave
the church and and pursue a samesex
relationship I don't think that would be
true being true to myself i think that
would be again zeroing in on one certain
aspect of my temperament or my my
experience and elevating that over this
broad you know picture of who I am as as
a child of God and as a as a father and
as a son and and all of these things
that make me who I am i think that would
be just such a wrong way to look at it
yeah yeah i agree we all have a bunch of
different identities you know if I'm if
I'm a certain ethnicity or certain race
and that's what I'm focused on and
that's everything that I am and all of
my decisions are based off ba based off
of that I'm not going to make a lot of
good decisions you know and that's why I
think he's you know under those first
three everything else all those other
identities are there it's not like
they're not there you know you don't
dismiss it completely but it but they're
down below the other identities and and
and other responsibilities that uh that
we all have guy I really appreciate you
you've got a you give a great example
sometimes there's not always great
examples out there and so I I enjoy
being able to platform you know you and
others and and have them talk about this
because it's it's not the greater
narrative that's out there right the
greater narrative is is the one that is
is pulling apart and and is a hope and
change and and uh I I think we need to
combat that absolutely yeah i appreciate
you having me on i think um there are
all sorts of voices and perspectives and
and how to do this um how to navigate
this these waters effectively and not
going to claim that I am the only or the
best voice in this world but I I do want
to add if I can more of a you know a
faithful
um religiously orthodox approach to
sexuality and to these LGBTQ
conversations to figure out how we can
balance relationships how we can stay
centered in the gospel and and either
promote or live or all of the above the
the covenant path
great Scott i really appreciate it thank
you