Hannah Stoddard is the Director of the Joseph Smith Foundation. In this interview, we discuss little-known facts about Joseph Smith.
that he made the gospel so literal his view of Zion was very much not just oh
it's in my heart it's we're building something real every single one of us are going to understand Joseph Smith to
the degree that we walk in his steps
excited about this interview with Hannah Stoddard I love speaking with Hannah she's very passionate about what she
does she knows Joseph Smith very very well and so I love the conversations that we have maybe some things you've
never heard of we're going to go over in this discussion here by the way make sure that you have subscribed push a
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is Greg Matson and I am your host in this episode we've brought back Hannah Stoddard from the Joseph Smith Foundation Hannah welcome back to the
show thanks Greg always fun to be with you I'm excited about this discussion here we're going to talk about the Prophet Joseph Smith um I feel that as
I've studied him I've gotten to know him a little bit he's my favorite proph obviously but there's a lot that I don't
know and I want hopefully for you to cover some things about his teachings yeah we read the doctrine of covenants
so we've got a lot of it there but I don't think we get much beyond that usually so hope I think we miss a little
bit of his personality just kind yeah okay so I want to hear about that so fill in the gaps a little bit starting off here on his personality from his
history and from and from his teachings okay um I might just go back a little
bit like with my story kind of on this a little bit because I and my I joke with
my sister about this all the time because she was the kid that even at 15 and 16 during like a more rebellious
period of her life she would be in there reading words of Joseph Smith which is Joseph Smith's uh navoo sermons by
Andrew eh hat put together she just be like these are amazing I love these um
and for some reason I had a little bit of a disconnect um which a lot of people
probably wouldn't guess cuz they're like but you're an AAR like you've done all the these books the joseth Foundation um
and I think that's something that God has kind of let me do a lot in my life like it hasn't always come naturally
some things like even some doctrinal things I I have to put an effort to appreciate it and joose teachings was
definitely uh one of those and so it's actually been in the last probably four or five years
actually saying okay I want to figure out what the big hype is with like you know obviously cuz I grew up with my dad
and and even my sister and they're like these are just like you got to just like eat it like eat them up like they're amazing like okay I want to figure out
what the big um and and I want to be like transparent about that because some
people may like oh can you say that like oh like what's the big deal about like Jose teachings like why would we really
care beyond the do answers I've always been like okay beyond the DU answer I I
want to know actually what's the substance here and so I started um getting into Joseph Smith teachings and
it was just like a whole new world opened up for me and I think the Lord was helping me see like whoa okay
there's so much packed in here and so that's when you called me and I was like well what do you want to talk about Joseph Smith I'm like we can go a
million different directions here and you're like I want to do the teachings I'm like okay cool let's do this so yeah
so with the teachings you know it's I remember going back and I think that was one of the few books that was approved
on my mission the the teachings of the Joseph of the Prophet Joseph Smith is that Joseph Fielding Smith yeah that put
that together so I remember reading through it and a lot of it is you know it's like okay I I read some things there were some things about like
uh how do you treat animals and and and and a number of different things you know it's just like it's very it's
compiled right everything they get pull together I think to that they had that uh that they were compil together but
again where do you see as you look through these teachings do you see themes do do you see do these fall under
some kind of a truth hierarchy or so to speak I'm always interested what I
always look at with Joseph Smith is I I look at the jst because what I the reason I do that is
because I want to see the difference MH right I want to see the difference
from what was there what Christianity had what Judaism had and now what is
Joseph Smith bringing to the table and in some cases changing yes what and and
as I see it there the where he focuses the most
on the changes seems to be with Abraham uh uh creation and and with the
restoration of the priesthood under something that we would call an abrahamic Covenant and exaltation yeah I
I was goingon to just e the new new and Everlasting Covenant like yeah keep going sorry yeah no that's that's that's
so so with that do you see the same thing then I mean you see something that is built under this new and Everlasting
Covenant and and how does he how does he get there do you have an idea of where he gets this how early on
because there's these little these little seeds MH that you start seeing from morona even early on that start to
lay this little foundation for him but I don't know where his his light kind of turns on yes okay well I love that
you're heading this direction because as you're talking I'm like oh this is so interesting this is kind of the journey I went on too so I'm wondering like I
wonder if there is more of a theme there too um definitely with the Joseph Smith translation that's what stuck out to me
so a couple years ago I was like um my dad had an experience on his mission where he just really like the like
Joseph Smith translation and he hadn't really thought much about it up to that point a ton like he'd read it and
studied it and um but it kind of got his attention and then I was thinking about
that experience a couple years ago and it was kind of just you know one of those questions that sit in the back of your mind and you can't let it go and so
I was like okay I've got to figure out what what is it about this Joseph Smith translation and when I was going through it I had the same Epiphany I was like
okay this is all the covenants got pulled out which is what Nephi says right in the book Mormon he's like they
go through the great NE Church they pull out the covenants um and you're exactly right that's the first thing Moroni
brings up to Joseph Smith so um and interrupt me at any time I start going
and going um so yeah right there Joseph Smith shows up to Mar we don't know a
ton of what happened in the first Vision I I personally feel like the first Vision probably went hours long it was
Joseph Smith says he doesn't share most of what happened there so and all of Don Bradley's research about that probably
being like an endowment and everything I I think that's fascinating I think there's a lot of Merit to that um but
for actually what we know Moroni shows up to Joseph Smith right he's um 16 17
years old okay my mind's blanking on his age but he's a teenager right and um
moronai comes and he says he quotes Malachi about we need to turn the hearts
of the children to the fathers well Joseph Smith gives a sermon in navu later on where he says that that word
turn should actually better be translated seal and he goes on and starts talking about the seal Elijah so
that is probably one of the first topics that got my attention actually kind of getting into Joseph Smith teachings
because we were working on a project where we were trying to organize all of Joseph teachings by topic and we've
started putting that on our website we are not completed yet but it's a work in progress and my sister had just finished
the topping on calling an election so all the quotes on having your calling an election made sure so she's like okay
Hannah can you like check these off before we post them on the website and I was reading those and I remembered that
when I was 12 I went to a private school my dad taught at that private school so
we would commute together every day and he had teachings of Joseph Smith among other things like sometimes it was Jane
a sometimes Jane Austin it was teachings of Joseph Smith one day and I remember there was the quote from Joseph Smith
talking about having your calling election mature and he was like pray don't cease till you obtain it and I
just remember thinking like I have not a clue what he's talking about um and so
that came back to me um a couple years ago when we were doing this calling election and so we're topic and we're
reading all of these quotes and what I started real realizing really quick about Joseph Smith is he's very
practical so when you ask that question about oh what what are these themes what do you mean practical very real life so
like you're saying treatment of animals he'll start talking about education military uh political principles but in
such a simple Common Sense real life way he's not someone that just starts
talking philosophically where it's intangible and it's very very real life
and I think a lot of that came from his experiences with visions he's he's a very he's building cities he's setting
up towns he's he his view of Zion was very much not just oh it's in my heart
it's we're building something real you know so everything was centered around that and um and I think that's one of
the reasons why it's important to get into Joseph Smith's teachings because I was thinking about that this this morning um so many of these topics like
I just brought up the calling and election okay so there's a lot of people that start going down that road um and
they get really weird really fast and start psycho experiences to the point
that it gets like this like like personally for me it's like the minute you heard someone talking about you're like okay are you in the nutcase group
or are you like somewhat sayane um and I think a lot of that comes because we
just start going on these wild hairs instead of getting grounded in the actual Doctrine getting grounded in the
teachings because if you study Joseph Smith like he talks about who the 144,000 are he talks about calling your
calling elction and it's very non- sensationalistic common sense logical like I just brought up the 144,000 well
Joseph Smith is really simple he's like it's men in the last days who obtain the priesthood ordinances and they go out
there and they basically kill themselves serving other people and Achieve what every single one of us have the
opportunity to achieve in the temple it's really simple it's not weird it's not creepy it's not mysterious it's not
Hush Hush it's it's actually really simple it's like okay just go obey the common doctrines that are everywhere to
be found this is no secret you know um and so that's what I love about Joseph
Smith even having her calling L Mur he's like it's really simple God tests you he's
gonna I was going to say something was more casual I should probably watch my language but he's like he's basic Satan
um not Satan the Lord is going to just test you the point to where he knows you are not going to back out and then he's
like okay I can trust you with responsibility like pretty simple so anyway I'm going off on a lot a lot of
different subjects but that those are just a few just a little tangent on that you know I one thing I've come to believe is that you talk about
responsibility I think that's really interesting is when when you go through the history this is a little off topic
here but when you go through the history of the scriptures you look at like Israel at Sinai yeah and
uh really what I would say is probably the early Saints experience it's so much
about responsibility right the the the Israelites at Sinai refused the
responsibility basically of the higher covenants and you know again I at at sin
we we get this I I I call it a a slide of hand because of the golden calf and
and the partying when Moses comes back down the first time comes down the first time but the problem wasn't just that yeah
right they said no yes to seeing the face of God to
essentially going up with Moses to SI to the top of Si and instead and that's my little
metaphor is they brought God down to them yeah instead but but it's all about
responsibility and I feel like exaltation y teach it's for the people
that were going to sacrifice and work and and stretch themselves and take on
responsibility it seems like that is such a central part yes of what Joseph Smith taught yes yes I I love that
you're bringing that up because you know even that whole experience where Moses is like come and see the face of God um
so that's a whole topic again we're talking about when people get off into the wild hairs and they're like oh I want to have like my second comforter
and I want to talk to Jesus they're missing the whole point they they're and that's why I think a lot of them get
deceived um where yeah they're having experiences but I'm going to say most of them are not
legit um and I'll stand by that and just look at the fruits um because and this
is something again if if we were actually rooted in Reading Joseph teachings and understanding the point we would see well what's the whole point of
talking to God why did Moses want the children of Israel to go talk to God is it because oh you can be special and
you're part of this special group and and we're going to go talk to Jesus like no it's because the
whole let's just step back for a second so what's the whole purpose of life right well second EA it's it's Joy it's
happiness and I think if we actually think about it every single person knows that every single thing we do every day
is calculated towards what we think is going to help us be happy either shortterm longterm like why am I sitting
here in this like Studio having this conversation when I could be doing something else is because I think in the long run this conversation is actually
going to make me happy you happy like we're all going to be happier right um um and so there was a man God the Father
who figured that out figured out how to actually be happy the right way um and so he sets up this plan he's like hey
let's let's let's do this and um sends us to Earth and now here we are in mortality um but Joseph Smith has a
quote where he says you can only get knowledge through experience he says reading everything ever written on a
subject isn't going to do it for you you've got to actually experience this and I think all of us can recognize that that it's one thing to have
to read about having a level to one die of cancer it's one thing to read about um
going through depression it's a whole another game when you've actually gone through it you gain experience right um
and that was Joseph Smith he he says yeah you can read about Moses but I talk
to Moses and guess what I know a lot more about Moses than you do you can read day and night everything every
Scholar's written on Moses or I can spend five minutes talking to him and I can tell you his personnel what he's like what this really looks like I can
read all about the creation or I can see the creation I can read about Enoch or I
can actually see the city of Enoch in Vision you know and that's what made Joseph Smith so great is he talked to
all these people he talked to Paul he had experience and his goal was he wanted every single one of us to say hey
if you really want to understand how to be happy if you want to really get this you've got to experience so so when
Moses is sitting there with the children of Israel he's like come talk to God it's because he he's saying I want you to actually become like this guy and to
do that you've got to know who he really is and you can't just sit in your little corner reading what someone else wrote
about him you have to kind of become like him a little bit or at least make the decision you're going to do that
yeah yes to to to to close the gap to some degree right yeah if if he says you
need to be a good father well you got to know what a good father looks like what what does he talk like how does he act
and to be able to do that there's there's a certain level where you can only see so much from our culture we're all pretty messed up from our culture
right You' got to transcend the culture and to do that comes through coming to
know God and that's the whole point and so I think that's where Joseph Smith his his whole goal was he was saying okay
I've done this I've actually talked to these prophets I actually see the plan I
see what is Zion is supposed to look like and I want you guys to too let me let me help you and that's why I think I think it was Brigham Yang who said
Joseph Smith could just take the most complicated subjects complicated theology that
everybody was debating about and he could just explain it in 5 seconds so simply um well how did he gain that
knowledge yeah experience yeah that's interesting too because if you go to
this is something that I I have a discussion with sometimes with it might be an atheist or other members of the
church that uh are talking about science right and it's like okay science is
great it it's a way to find truth yeah right but there's also a spiritual
science mhm that works exactly the same way as I see it and in fact Elma uses the term
experiment and if you follow the principles that he goes through it is the
scientific uh method yeah it's the scientific method it's the same exact thing the difference is that it's not
knowledge through eyesight and observation it's it's a knowledge through exper
as you said yeah so it it goes through the same thing in fact I was just having this discussion with someone online
trying to go through this and in fact if you read empirical evidence and what the definition is it says observation or
experience it is empirical evidence right it's just that it's intimate yes
right it it's it's just for you and that's kind of what it seems like Joseph Smith I don't know when this would have started maybe it's the first Vision but
he always had this this uh
desire almost it seems to me like something that almost was I don't know if overwhelming is the right word but
just driving driving him to have everybody else have a
similar experience like the same thing I agree 100% because he knew how to get
the he kind of paved the way and he's like okay every single one of you guys can get there too yeah yeah that's
really interesting so what are some other teachings from Joseph Smith that that maybe we might cover here that people may not be aware of yeah okay
that's a great question well I wanted to throw in a plug for this you mentioned the teachings of Joseph Smith by um Joseph filling Smith this is one of my
favorite books it's Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith teachings um my grandma bought this for me a couple years ago
and I was like how did I not know this existed um he's basically he has a lot of josephmi teachings by topic not
everything um that's where the Joseph Smith papers are coming in handy and that's why eventually like I would love
to trying so hard um in our spare moments to do this project just try to get everything categorized online but
you can go any topic charity um Darkness what hell is and that's again where
Joseph Smith just starts debunking all of these rumors theology ideas that we
CA came from the great apostasy what is Hell H how are you saved and he just starts explaining and you're like okay
that's the most common sense thing in the world why didn't I get that you know um example on since I just mentioned the
thing about hell he he explains he's like hell is just the torment of your disappointed hopes you get to the other
side and you realize you didn't achieve what you could have achieved it was there and you made choices and exercised
your agency in a way and you're like oh shoot like that was stupid that's what eats at you God is not this person with
the stick trying to beat you up you he he's constantly like I want you here
like I'm not going to cut you off from anything so explains like your hell is literally just what you build for
yourself so don't don't be stupid don't do it you know and and at the same time
like the Lord's right there like the minute you're willing to change you know so it's just okay that makes so much more sense than all these other
questions of like and how long are we going to suffer and and he's like it's kind of in your hands like how long do you want to suffer how long do you want
to just hold on in stubbornness like no my way you know um let me yeah uh I I
threw a couple quotes this morning when I was just cuz I was thinking that same idea what are some specifics um the
parable of the prodical son okay this is one of my favorites um I'm not sure if you've already um read Joseph Smith's
interpretation okay it's so interesting um so he he he sits down and
and he it's it's in a sermon and and I think it's in navu and he says everyone's debating on what the meaning
of the parable the prodigal son he was like it's really simple and he was like and everyone asked me how do you interpret Parables and he was like you
don't interpret them you just ask what's the question no that was asked why Jesus
gave the parable he's like that will tell you the answer so what was the question well the Pharisees are coming and they're like why are you eating with
all these publicans and sinners like why are you hanging out with them so he gives um the parable of the lost sheep
the Lost coin and then the parable of the Prodigal Son they're all they're all answering that question so he first he says the parable of the um the lost
sheep and he explains that the 99 were the Pharisees and the Sadducees mhm so
um the 99 are the Pharisees and Sadducees and the one lost sheep is the um the prostitute The Sinner the
Publican that want is humble and wants to repent in other words all 100 sheep were lost it's not like oh there's 99
that are pure no those those those Pharisees and those Sadducees were pretty corrupt a lot of them too right
um and but he's like all of you are so and joseth says this um let me see if I
can if I had the exact quote but he basically says he says they're so righteous they're going to be damned
anyway meaning they think they're so righteous but they're really lost too well that completely changes the whole
meaning of the the parable all hundred sheep are lost but only one of them realizes they're lost and actually is
willing to be found same with the prodigal son he's like the older son is the Pharisees and the Sadducees saying
like we've always done the right right thing he's like really you're you mostly just have built up this fake
righteousness you're actually not following me um and here's this prodigal son who is willing to change and he's
expects nothing he's like I'm just willing to be a servant I don't even have to be a son and the father's like okay here's someone I can work with it's
actually humble and when basically he's saying when the father says to his older son like you everything I have is yours
you're always with me why why do you care he's being sarcastic he's saying you already say you've got everything
you've got the Temple You've got everything you've got life figured out he's like why do you even need me you you don't need me you know so you can
start if you now go back to the New Testament you start seeing okay there's a little humor in here a little sarcasm
that Jesus Christ is throwing in there and Joseph Smith picks up on that um anyway that that one has been really
maybe just transformative for me personally because I've seen that play out so many times in my life and
starting to recognize what God really cares about people with pasts with baggage okay people all of us right but
at different levels what God really cares about who he's actually searching for what our attitude should be how do
you judge righteously how do you not judge falsely and all of that but anyway
those are just two fun ones right there do you do you think uh what
about obviously we're going to look at things that are canonized as the top
right that's that's we're going to go up here with with with the writings yeah but how how how how do you view the
teachings of Joseph Smith outside of the DNC for example okay this great where is
this and why don't we use it more okay this is a great question so when you are
going through Joseph Smith's teachings you have to realize Joseph Smith didn't write down
very much himself where he's sitting at a paper just writing himself it either comes through scribes or someone writing
down his sermon as he's talking right um now this is used by some people like all
of the the polygamy deniers and stuff like that where they're like basically they use as a justification basically
eliminate 99% of the record of Joseph Smith teachings that we have which always makes me laugh because I'm like
you guys claim to Love Joseph Smith so much but 99% of his words that have been handed to us you throw that's very
convenient for you anyway um so I think with each of Joseph Smith's teachings
you same with any historical document look at who it came from um compare a
lot of times Joseph Smith is giving a sermon and we've got multiple people reporting the same sermon you can compare and contrast see the parts that
are the same um sometimes they clarify each other um sometimes there statements
that come decades and decades and decades later but they match with things
that are more contemporary or they match with things in the scriptures and then there's sometimes statements where people say 50 years later oh I heard
Joseph Smith say this and you're like well that kind of contradicts what's in the scriptures so you got to be careful
with those um I'll use a few examples would be like the White Horse prophecy
um some of the statements on the Lost tribes um Joseph fiing Muni has a really good article called the scriptural
search for the Lost tribes of Israel I think is what it's called um and he
walks through okay what what do we actually know for sure what Joseph Smith said what's a little bit more he say so
there is a little bit of ranking where you got to be a little bit careful with some of those things but a lot of what
for example what we have in the Joseph Smith papers it's right there at the time you have Willard wichards or um um
uh Howard Cay or others just sitting right there and as Joseph Smith talking they're taking the notes and they are so
rich and they're filled with things um but at the same time I guess you do have to have a little bit of a I mean they're
secondhand yeah right so there's a little bit of a well is this exactly what he said exactly because if you go
through scripture even then it's very difficult to what is the the verse in
uh second Nephi talking about uh after all we can do right then you're saved
after all we can do and if you you have to really look at it to understand what's being said there so if you got a
secondhand account it's like okay I can get the gist maybe of everything but
is you're going to need the spirit yeah just like with everything and without
the spirit you're going to get lost I mean that's why we've got thousands of years of people fighting in Christendom
over things that should be so simple yeah yeah you know um debating about
Paul like twisting every kind of word in the book you know um but at the same
time we do have a lot of Joseph Smith's teachings that are very clear they're
recorded pretty well there's actually a lot more than people realized there was a lot more than I
realized um and again they just make complete sense
there's there's and then there's there's some that Joseph Smith writes completely himself like his editor torial try the
spirits that was published in the times and seasoned that's one of my favorites I don't even know what that is okay I
this is one of the first things I read of Joseph smth teachings when I was like okay I'm G to get serious like okay Lord
like I have been playing games too long I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and I'm going to like do the work to
study these out and I got led to this editorial Joseph Smith wrote on discernment the whole thing he explains
laws about how to discern how to tell spiritual experiences what's true what the spirit of God feels like versus
false counterfeits and it was really interesting because I had read it before
but most of it I think kind of went over my head and now reading it a few years later with a little bit more experience
under my belt maybe a little more of a humble heart and and the spirit just started opening my mind like oh my word
it is packed and it was so fascinating I kid you not like over the next six
months after I read it I encountered so many friends that were in having faults
spiritual experiences and it was so good be like okay does it check out with all of these things like here's this
teaching and is this similar to the handshaking with the spirits um he does a little bit more of um Impressions so
how to tell when an Insight or an idea you have um is orderly um he talks about
um accuse an accusing spirit with like accusing leaders he he goes through like even specific members who had come to
him and said oh an angel came to me like this and that and he was like well that's debunked because of this scripture here or um he talks about um
women having Revelations like men having Revelations leaders like it's is there a difference between men and women having
Revelations um he he does go into that a little bit especially with how it should be taken from the church like how much
stock should be placed in it um but he you have to be careful with oh that's
that's like opening a whole can right there sounds like because um at the same
time I mean if we want to talk about the role of women that's a whole like untapped resource of Joseph Smith's
teaching really and and spiritual gifts and um yeah I think I think we've
totally lost the whole role of women and I'm not I'm not a feminist I'm not saying that in the sense of no one twists that to say I'm out there like
promoting ordain women but um like we're we're we're good in in the church like I
like we're we're we're good but what I mean is maybe as members we do not as women we are not embracing our potential
we are not realizing ing the the untapped power we could be accessing and using and and what we should be doing to
build the kingdom of God we just don't realize the power that you have yeah I
uh do I go down this path um I'm beting a nod from the producer
okay uh yeah so there's there is a there's something I've been focusing on a lot more recently and that is there's
a lot of data on on women in religion and Faith that's
coming out right now it's changing really fast and it's as an example women are
still more religious than men but noded with Gen Z it's the
same right the nuns are the same male and female and uh there if you read Isaiah
and you go through what Isaiah talks about and what is going to happen in the last days
yeah it does talk about some things about men but then when it gets down to
things it's to the women it's like they're the last stronghold MH and they
falter yes you know and it's like that's scary I mean even as a man
I'm thinking to myself I I my wife is like an anchor to me you know I have to
rely on that sometimes because sometimes I will act not as purely in a well this
is what God wants I'll do it because of my responsibility to my wife and my kids
right it's like that's that's an extra anchor for me so if I've lost that too
yeah that that is really scary scary yeah yeah well kind of my journey on the
whole women thing again it goes back to Joseph's teaching so this is 2022 and I just finished the try the spirit study
and and and yeah it was the Lord is very practical I I I feel like when we put in the effort to study he uses it
immediately like he'll lead us like okay go study this and then you'll start finding people you need to help and um
and that's what happened with for me on the discernment for sure and then the next month I was reading um Joseph SMI
teachings to the Relief Society so it's his sermons like when they're setting up the relief society
and the advice that he gave them and there's things where he explains okay here's your strengths here's your weaknesses here's the things to watch
out for um and it Ed sticking out to me some of the things Joseph Smith talking
about um meekness he talks about always being comforting having this just very
uplifting cheerful like Spirit um and the power that women can have if they'll
do that and the Lord started calling me to repentance as I was reading this and
he was saying you are not like as Meek as you should be you don't truly and and
I remember sitting there where I was like okay I have always been against feminism like if anything like I come
from a very like very conservative like cult traditional yes yes and so I was
like what um and the Lord was like I'm not into actions I'm not into clothes
I'm not I'm I'm into the heart and when it comes to the heart every single one of you guys are about like equal like
everywhere and and you have a lot to change and and and so I started kind of the Lord started leading me on this
journey of okay let's let's work on your heart let's change your nature let's become become more Meek and kind and um
and different things and interestingly as I got more into the temple endowment and as I started studying Abraham more
that's what the Lord kept it seemed like the Lord kept leading me back to Sarah to Rebecca to these examples right like
as as women um and then after I feel like the Lord kind of just really put me through a cleansing process for a while
then he started I started um diving into more of the teachings about okay it was almost like the Lord was like okay now I
trust you now to teach you about all the things you can do like like there is a power here um and that's a whole another
topic with um women's roles and the priesthood and all of those things that's like okay better not get into
that unless we have an hour just for that um but 100% I really feel I almost feel like
I'm probably going to move that direction a little bit um with my life calling because I think women need more
of an anchor I think we're getting hit by a lot of voice and women are searching for their identity they're
searching for something more and God does not want us to go and recreate the past a lot of people are like oh it's so bad today let's go back and recreate
recreate Victorian England or you know the 50s okay no all of those time periods are trash they're all apostate
they're we're all we we need to be progressing forward um and I think a lot of women are hungering for that and
that's why there sometimes prey to a lot of voices out there of women saying oh
yeah okay you know an inciting kind of this rebellious Ed especially like heart string tugging on heart strings yes and
that's why I kind of I do have empathy for women that are even drawn by name specifics like the Julie Hanks
types or there others because um I don't necessarily agree but I see where
they're twisting and I see the need the women have questions and they have needs
they're just getting the wrong answers and I think a lot of those answers could go back to if we better understood
coming back to Joseph Smith's teachings Joseph Smith teachings on the kingdom of God what it looks like in a very practical real sense men's roles women's
roles it's it's almost like we just need to completely just bulldoze everything down and rebuild like
everything um just question with boldness even the existence of God and say okay like do I really understand and
go in with an open heart and I think if we do that and J teachings are a great Point well and that's what he did I mean
really I think that he had go through how do you not how do you come out the other side like he did without going
fully into yes you know a a position of I call it you know and a lot you know
Bruce Porter for example he'll he'll talk about the wrestling with God of Jacob and that's a temple experience and
that's actually the ritual Embrace and find and then enus you know wrestles with God I feel like we are supposed to
do that Y and when I say when I say wrestling I mean the not arguing but
almost you know what I mean it's almost youve done it with God you know what they're talking yes exactly it's like
you have to but wait a minute you know and and just engage yes to to I I I feel
that and I'm certainly guilty of this I feel like even in prayer it's like it's so passive sometimes you know and and
it's not like how important is this to me yes you know why why you know look at
Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail you know I mean he's just like stands up he's sick of it he's almost yelling at God yeah
you know and and it's there's something to that I don't
think it's there's a difference it's not fully Rebellion yes right it's not it
but it's very strong and it's impassion passion isn't bad yes um the rebellious
stuck up snarky attitude um I know personally doesn't help you out the
pride but when you can go to God with confidence say Okay God I've done everything you've told me this is not
adding up what's going on here and you have that really Frank honest you're humble but it's at the same
time you you've done your part and and like Joseph Smith says come boldly to
the throne of grace and I've had experiences in my life like that where I I knew I had done everything God asked
me to do and there's opposition coming in like crazy and and and you go to God
and you're like okay God like I'm not moving here I'm obeying 100% I I need but I need to know I need to know more I
had an experience like that probably about a month ago um and and I I was at
the temple and everything and I was like okay God like I need some pieces I need you to come through on your part of the
deal like and like things opened up about Adam and Eve and and just all sorts of things it was a really powerful
experience for me but it came from a wrestling absolutely it was a wrestle
there's no better way describe it yeah I I think you know that's a little bit
more I think in the Jewish tradition they're a little more like that even with each other yeah you know it's like
it's like much more debate um well they care because they
realize it matters yeah and when your life is on the line or your family's life is on the line or your future is on
the line suddenly you start caring and I think Joseph Smith saw that and that's why he cared so much cuz he was like
okay my salvation and the salvation of everyone alive is at stake and this is where we can get so they really cared
and I think a lot of us yeah I I think I mean that's why we're putting in all
these sacrifices to do these research to do these podcast is because we care because we see the answers are right there and anyone can access them you
don't have to pay any money for it you don't have it's literally sitting on your bookshelf for free just pick up those Dusty scriptures and start
wrestling with God for those answers yeah and there's also a I think maybe sometime again we I can go back and I
talk about this a lot but this politeness in our culture as latterday Saints it's almost like it's also pointed toward God yeah it's like well I
need to be polite M and and and politeness is a virtue but it's not it's
not a high virtue to me it's like yeah it's apathy is almost what we call
politeness it's like I'll just be mellow yeah yeah and it's like I don't think
that much gets done that way yes you know and and it's and it's not a virtue
that uces much mhm it's it's uh it's almost a veil of sorts
over our own uh the lack of production or responsibility going back to
responsibility sometimes you know yes yes I think I think what you're saying I know exactly what you're saying um and I
think it's really important I think we need to care and we need to invest more and I think that's what you see with so many of the early Brethren like the
briam youngs and the Hebrew kimal and that's why they rub a lot of people wrong they're not polite they're not
polite but it's because they could see something that the rest of us couldn't and they had experiences that a lot of
us realize aren't aren't completely accessible to any one of us you know um
with that I just have to emphasize again because I went down this road both the wrong way and then the right way um The
Importance of Being TR discovering what true meekness and true humility is and
that's something that I would say don't go to the culture to Define what those terms are because again what you're like
you're saying it's nice it's passive it's
gross right um and it was last year I had an experience where I had a dream
and I felt like the Lord was like you need to discover what real meekness really is and I could feel the Lord
telling me your idea of what it is is not what it is and so I was like well
that's not really helping me out here like I kind of need some details if I'm going to do this I need you know some
specifics and and that took wrestling and prayer and study for a couple months and and different and God sent me on
different experiences and and things to teach me better what meekness was and and so now I would say okay yeah that
meekness is essential if you're going to sit down and have that conversation with god if you want to get an answer you've
got to you've got to be meek and you've got to be humble and you've got to be reverent but not reverent in the way the
world defines it it's trying to put something intangible
into words um but but you know and I I think if you just seek God and ask him
he helps you he helps you understand but yes be more bold there is a there's a book that I love it's one of my favorite
books it's from uh Steven Ricks and LR Baker and it's called who shall Ascend the hill who shall Ascend the hill of
the Lord whatever the verse is I think it's in uh it's Psalm 24 and it's all about the Psalms which
are uh a temple drama right they they're the temple drama but they're all mixed
up and turned around and uh
I think they focus on this because of the overall thesis they have on on the book
of Psalms which is about the temple and okay let's be honest everything in the scriptures says about absolutely
absolutely chapter the more you start seeing it but keep going yeah and so one of them is I don't remember which which
Psalm it is but they it comes up meek all right Meek is used and for them anyway as they went through the Hebrew
they they thought that meekness uh oh it was also being applied to the Beatitudes MH and they said you
know the meek the meekness here is really a uh it is a I don't even want to call it
submission but maybe uh but it is a an agreement to follow covenants y y right
your life is over you're willing to do whatever the Lord asks but that gives you power yes well you're you're
anchored on Truth yeah you're anchored on truth and God and and uh so yes it
gives you power it's not a again it is submitting but it it's
like it's like saying right in ether 12 right it's like bring to me your weaknesses yes and I will make them
strength yes it's like that yes it's Ammon getting up and saying okay we converted all these thousands of Lites
look what God did it's not hiding from accomplishment it's realizing no we can be proud of this no we we are um you
know Nephi first Nephi 1:1 the famous verse that everyone's read a million times right um he says I was highly
favored of the lord well if what is the word favored M favorite he's basically
saying I'm one of God's favorites like okay like you want to
like all right tell me more right but and but the way he's saying it is in a
true where he's saying and and Joseph Smith talks about this in lectures on faith and of course I mean lectures on
faith was compiled with multiple WR but Joseph Smith influenced it so that's why I'm going to say I I was actually going
to bring that up and ask you about that yes yes there's there's multiple but definitely Joseph Smith is the one like behind it you got like Sydney BRD
there's kind of like word smithing and things um but he says right in there he's like what gave the ancient Saints
confidence to go through hell to go through being boiled in oil lose all their kids and just be like do it go for
it you know G what gave him such confidence and he was like it's because they knew knew they were the favorites
of Heaven because they knew they had done everything God had asked and they knew what the reward they were going to
have in the next life in the true sense not in an arrogant sense no that's hope
that is the hope that is what hope is you're right and it's it's that's something that's hard to work you know
still I have a really hard time with it because I talk a lot about faith hope and charity yes and if you look at that that's it's very specific in the
scriptures that hope is a future it's your future state of being essentially
mhm given to you because of Christ yes right or the opportunity because it's God saying yeah you are going to be
saved or this is what you're going to inherent or you are going to receive this reward right but if you look at it
wrongly it looks like Pride 100% yep right yep so it's those counterfeits and
I think Satan does that on purpose because he wants us to get so grossed out by the counterfeit we won't seek the
pure version um but yeah if you look at all through the scriptures like these are guys that are tough and strong
what's giving them that strength well it's not because they were watching TED talks and are like okay I'm going to go
like dominate the Earth no it's CU they're talking to God and so they know what they know and at the same time
they're they'll give the shirt off their back to um yeah I I haven't I have have a little
bit of a side tangent but it comes in and pulls everything since we're talking about Joseph Smith teachings in the Joseph Smith translation the josephites
um might if we go there for a second I love it I've seen you I've heard you talk about these things before okay but
because it ties into the whole responsibility um Factor like I brought my scriptures cuz I was like I don't
know where we're going to go so we'll just um go where the conversation kind of heads but this is in um the Joseph
Smith translation of Genesis 48 and what we're going to see here is
understanding how to take responsibility how to receive blessings from God but how that actually makes you a servant
how that so there's this humility and power meekness like but they work together Christ was a servant yeah the
servant yeah yeah he lived his whole life not really having a lot of fun in vacations um so in Genesis um 48 if you
just go read the Bible version this is when Joseph brings his two children Ephraim and Manasseh to Jacob you know
they're have they're being reconciled this family together and um Jacob does something that I think in our culture we
would say is a little funny or odd he he basically says okay Ephraim and manasse I'm taking you like you're not your
dad's kids anymore you're my kids um and he that's what he does he adopts them and he says they will be called after my
name therefore they were called Israel so that's why they're considered under the 12 tribes of Israel um and I don't
completely understand all of the Covenant reasons why he took Joseph's children as his I feel like there's
something there I want to kind of like chew more sorry um two more on that probably in the temple kind of figure
out what there's there's something going on here that's significant but essentially that that's what happens but
then Jacob turns to Joseph and is like yeah I just took your two kids but he says thy issue this is in verse six of
the Joseph Smith translation again you got to read it in the Joseph Smith translation because that's where all the meat is but he says thy issue so your
children which thou Joseph of Egypt beetest after them shall be
thine they will be called after the name of thy Brethren therefore they were called the tribes of anass and Ephraim
so basically he's saying Joseph of Egypt you're going to have more children more sons and we're going to kind of label
them under the house of Israel they'll they'll be called ephraimites they'll be called manasse ites but they're your
children and he keeps going he says um he says okay Joseph you inherited all of
these blessings you're obtaining the land for an everlasting possession he says you saved my house from Death this
is in verse eight he says you delivered all of your brethren from famine he says
wherefore God will bless thee and the fruit of thy loins they shall be blessed above thy
Brethren and above thy father's house in other words these other josephites they're blessed above Judah Levi even
manasse and ephra like there's these other these other kids now um and and he
says where um he says that okay verse 10 he says um they thy Brethren shall bow
down unto thee from generation to generation unto the fruit of thy loins forever so if you just read right there
you're going to be like okay wait who are these elitist kids and what's going on here right because this is that's the
same response Joseph's brothers had right where Joseph goes to them and he's like I had this dream and the Sun and the Moon and all the stars bowed down to
me my dad bowed down to me my mom bowed down to me and all my siblings and they're like okay you Eric like like get
out of here that's what they did um tried to kill him um so so Jacob saying
yeah no that that was that dream was legit and it it's not just about you Joseph but all of your
children why are these children being given this position of power well in the
next verse it says um because they will be a light to my people to the house of
Israel to deliver them in the days of their captivity from bondage to bring Salvation unto them when they are
altogether bowed down under sin and then he goes on and he starts talking about Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith's
responsibility to save Israel and and all of this what I love about that
passage is you're seeing this balance of you know Joseph of Egypt has to go through a lot of Hell to get these
blessings it's not like he just woke up one morning and it's like oh you're just a special kid I'm going to give you this no he goes through year 14 years right
if you count all a slavery between potier and then he's in um Pharaoh's prison 14 years of misery it's like
really hard then he has to go and do all this work to go save the family that never appreciated him in the first place
you know and and he doesn't get to see them he he he never gets to see Benjamin basically his beloved brother his whole
life Benjamin doesn't get to see him like there's a lot of sacrifices that go involved and so then Lord's like okay
through Jacob you're going to be blessed and your children are going to be blessed but the blessing is that you going to be a servant
forever that's the blessing right the blessing is um but that's not a
demeaning thing the more you become like God I feel like the more you realize
it's a privilege to be able to realize okay I have a blessing and I want to
take that blessing to others and this is what you see in Joseph Smith's life he spent his whole life it was a really
hard life but when you read Joseph Smith's teachings and you read the stories of people who knew him he was so
optimistic and cheerful he was funny he's laughing he was not this guy
walking around like oh like we are making all these sacrific for the Lord
and we like oh like my life is so hard like he was just always like this is
great you know and you're like you're being tired and feathered you're losing all your kids you never get to be home
like what's your problem you know um because he he was realizing wow look at
what we're building he's creating he's devel he's he's developing he's helping all of these people and I think that's
the perspective that he and so many of these other prophets like Abraham Abraham I think was probably the same
kind of personality all the book of Mor and Prophets you read all of them they're they're happy guys they're guys that you'd want to be around um because
they realize that that joy that comes from the responsibility and the service
and and how exciting this is like we can help all these people develop and find joy and and yeah it takes a lot of
sacrifice but that's that's love that's and love conquers and love is
responsibility right so so that's that's that goes right back to the same point it's like yeah you're going to be
blessed as a servant mm which means you're going to serve you're you're going to love others and God yes and
that's responsibility mhm it is a blessing right responsibility is a blessing you can call it a curse to some
degree but it's a blessing yeah and I don't think that you can have joy without it
no I mean not real Joy not real Joy how do you get joy without having a responsibility for someone else yes yes
Joy comes through creation it comes through organizing it comes through responsibility is another word you're
using for that um it's devel binging and that's that's why I feel is why Joseph
teachings are so important because he grew to understand this through personal
experience through Visions through talking personally with angels talking personally with Jesus Christ so he had
just a whole different perspective like he told the Saints he said if I haven't told you he said less than half of 1% of
what he knew so people like a lot of people study Joseph Smith's teachings
tons like Andrew ehab Truman Madson like others and they're like there's so much here and Joseph was like yeah that's
less than half of 1% of what I know um he was like he can't share more I'm like
holy cow what are all these other cats hiding in bags that are going to be let out one day you know um but he but he
saw this whole perspective and my dad would always say if you want to be great at something you go to the greatest you
find the greatest expert you can find to achieve it if you want to be the best pianist in the world you're not going to
go to your neighbor down the street you're going to go to the best pianist you can find if you want to be a really
good speaker don't check in at your local high school speech and debate class go go to the best ones out there
so if we really actually want to build Zion and if we really actually want to be happy and become like God we got to
go to the people who knew it the best um and it kind of takes a step of Faith
like you're not going to understand it at first but like I didn't fully understand what all the value was just
make the effort go start digging in all right so I've got to ask who are
these other josephites then this is such a good question right
I personally think that when we get the brass plates there's going to be a lot of that history because if you think
about it laan is a descendant of Joseph and he's keeping the records of his fathers and but it's not just we know
Isaiah's on we know there's a lot of Jewish writings on there so it almost seems like the brass plates are kind of
this record of maybe these fathers that are over all the fathers kind of keeping
the whole history together and then you've got the Bible that's kind of like their version and then you've got the book of morm the Nephi history but you
kind of have this overarching that's what I suspect is on um the brass plates
um so when we come to today um I think kind of looking at the
promis and asking who are fulfilling those promises so for example in um
verse 48 ver 11 when he says they're going to be a light they're going to deliver Israel in the days of their
captivity well clearly that's physical and it's spiritual so you start looking
around and you start noticing hey we have all these presidents of the church that have devoted their entire lives to
delivering people from spiritual captivity hm interesting you'll notice most of them are pretty patriotic
Freedom Fighters too funny how those always go together um I would suspect like George Washington I
would suspect like these great men that have literally have done this who killed
themselves their whole life made sacrifices lost everything to do what to
help those around them to a better life um I do believe it's tied into the
temple because what do we Covenant to do in the temple sacrifice consecration
obedience the law of the Gospel well why so that we can help our children and those around
us build Zion build the kingdom of God so yeah I don't know I I I don't have
like a quote right here and something like but I think if you start looking at the promises and I think every single
one of us can ask ourselves too like do I resonate with this do I feel like this is like honestly when I read that
passage I'm like this is me that that puts in words like what I'm feeling like
okay you know you always want to find people or music or books that get you that get how you think and when I read
that I'm like okay th this is what I'm thinking that sometimes I think is so weird okay that's that's the goal yes
and I want to be with people like that I want to sit down at the table with a bunch of men and women that are all talking about this that that's my ideal
Thanksgiving well it's interesting because it goes through and talks about how you know everyone's going to bow
down to Joseph and I I that might be all of us to a certain Dee yeah right it's if you're a
king and a queen in the house of Israel that's kind of a yeah yeah it's like I I
that the whole thing you're talking about is this tradition of Joseph that I think is brought through the brass
plates and then of course to the Book of Mormon um I don't think we really
understand the legacy of Joseph right and and what what he means
to us today yes right and and maybe who some of us are right and uh how we have
the Book of Mormon and what that means why why you you follow this entire DNA coming through from Joseph all the way
down through the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith Moroni to Joseph Smith and then out to
the ephraimite Gentiles so to speak yes no 100% right like when captain morona
gets up to the Nephites he says we are a remnant of Joseph he doesn't even even
get up and he doesn't say oh we're Manasses or we're ephraimites or we're Judah like he says we're a remnant of Joseph I think he's trying to remind
them who are you guys um and I think the probably the most important thing we
need to today is identity I think everyone including myself is starving to
know our identity we want to know who we were in the premortal life we want to know who we are now what what like what
are we doing here what is going on on this planet Earth like what are we doing here why are things set up this way and
that's where I mean like I'm sitting here looking at the Joseph Smith translation and I'm and you look at it
what is Joseph Smith revealing through the whole thing covenants identity he's trying to say tell us and why did he
need us to know that because not to be like oh some guy 600 years ago this
applies to him but to sit there and read this and go okay wait this is me this is
why I'm here this is why my life is hard I'm going to push through okay here's the promises here's to do it and that
goes again back to Moroni sitting there saying Joseph Smith the whole purpose of the book of Mor this whole purpose of
this whole restoration thing is let's get the kids back to the DS Let's help them realize who they are so that they
can actually Bear off the kingdom take it to the next level yeah all right so back to
Joseph Smith how radical are his teachings in his time I think they're still really
radical today they are yes uh you know what what what made Joseph
Smith so radical is that he made the gospel so literal and what I mean by
that is he would read the Old Testament and he'd be like okay let's be like Abraham let's go do this let's be like
um they didn't really know much about Eno but you know once he learns about enck he's like oh we can do this too let's let's go build Zion ourselves you
know um oh King David he he reads this he's like well we'll go set up our own
Nauvoo Legion we'll go set up our military what's the role of like and a school like and that's where he
gets into the whole polygamy like you can't understand Joseph Smith unless you understand the Old Testament and the New
Testament because all he's doing is he's saying guys what they did was smart we're going to go back
and recreate that but we're going to do it even better now when I say they I don't mean the apostate state of Israel
like most most of the scriptures struggling but I'm talking about the men that actually achieved it that got it
the Abraham the Isaac's the Jacobs the seths the Adam um and so and Joseph Smith is
just saying let's take this as literal so when you're talking to your Evangelical friends and you're like oh
you guys don't believe in the Bible actually we believe in the Bible more than the others we just take it really
literal and then on some things it's more metaphorical you know I'm not
getting into the whole debate right there on how to interpret scripture but in terms of no you can talk to God God
is real he has a body and you can talk to him you can become like him these SE angels are real they're not it's this
it's not just this emotional
intangible Essence it's not the force right it's not the force these are
actually real people and and he's like Maron is alive he's talking to me he can talk to you too let's let's let's go
build this let's let's go build this city let's build something better for our children let's figure out what good hospitals look like what how do you eat
right it's just a very and that threatens it threatens Satan because all of a
sudden it's real he he doesn't Satan doesn't care if we just sit around reading our scriptures all day he doesn't care he cares when we actually
start going and living those scriptures right that's when he's like oh no no no let's not do this um people don't care
so much about your beliefs until it actually becomes practical till you're actually going and building right it's
when the saints actually are moving to Missouri and are like yeah this is Zion and we're building it that's when they're like uh okay you guys are done
we're we're done with you guys um but it's if we don't have something
real it's like if you only have an inheritance a land inheritance in your mind what good is that right some
nebulous Promised Land yeah what so again then that brings me back to
looking at his teachings why aren't we looking at them more I mean why don't we pull from this more there is I mean and this is you
know I'm I'm the worst offender here on this but I I I I've been through Pro the
teachings of the Prophet J probably three times I would say maybe three times I've gone through the whole thing but it's probably been 15 years since
I've looked through it why I'm not judging you trust me I've got to do so much better myself so so why are we not
pulling because it just seems to me especially as you're talking about this that we can get so much more clarity and
reality on on everything if we would read what he says right now and it's sitting right there for us yeah okay um
exaltation uh this to me is kind of like the motherload of of everything that she
talks about it's like because it involves everything it involves her identity it involves what is the counsil
in heaven all about it involves purpose why you're here why you're getting a
body but it is such a radical teaching uh and and it's one of those
other things it's like it's like going back to that whole idea of well you're you're you're exalting yourself MH
you're being proud MH right if you're if you're teaching something like this mhm that's what I usually have in the Interfaith discussions how can you
possibly possibly believe that you would become like God yeah right that is a
heresy it is unbelievably proud um but man it's beautiful yeah I
think they're missing what God is doing up there you know because again it's this whole Theology of oh God is this
King and he's so like he's God right and he's on this top of a topless throne and
he's a force right he doesn't even have have a body and we're just all created to sit there and praise Him day and
night right like that's all we do we're with our Harps and up there singing you know um and they're missing that God God
is a man who wants to create and wants to develop and wants to build cities and
mus like I he's a this is again what Joseph Smith is coming he's saying he's a person he's a musician he's an artist
he loves to tell a good joke he's he's a person he loves to explore a scientific question he loves to build things he he
would be the dad out there building the best playground in the world and just watching and getting Tickle Pink like his kids just having the time of their
lives right he he's a person he's real um he enjoys the best cooked meals like
he'd be the best chef out there he he'd be the best artist he's um and he he
knows that Joy comes by helping all these other intelligences be able to
discover Joy themselves this is um I mean I'm not a parent myself but I can only imagine with my siblings and so
you can speak to this even better like as a parent you just want your kids to find what you've found and be happy and
and just be growing together um and so what they don't understand is that's that's what it means to become God so
you're just trying to you you want to keep that cycle going you want to have children and you want to help them grow
and you want to create and it's really just fully developing who you are as as
a human as an intelligence and doing that forever in ways we can't even
comprehend um and yeah I I it's it's very beautiful
there's there's purpose it goes to what you're saying about being real it makes God real real
very real it really does because it's if he is us in a
sense how do you get more real than that right it's it's it it takes away the Divide I one thing I talk about a lot
about is uh this whole idea of of participation versus observance and you know most of Christianity is an
observance yes there's this massive Gap that is what Satan loves yeah there's this massive gap between us and God and
it's always there and it'll never change and and you know we don't believe that that's not how it works we are part of
the plan we we were part of the plan we are we have input we have uh roles and
jobs and and and responsibilities and everything to help with a plan
because we need to be like him mhm right and we even need to become more engaged I feel like you know when you're asking
why don't we study Joseph Smith's teachings more I think in a lot of ways we're asleep which if you go read the parable of the 10 virgins how many of
the virgins are asleep wi is and the foolish a lot of people are like oh the five unwise it's all of them all of them
all of them are asleep okay that's all of us and Hebrew Kimel actually made a prophecy where he said all of Joseph
Smith's boys right now are asleep he was like but one day they're going to wake up and then they're going to roar like
the Thunders of Mount Si and they're going to go just take the gospel to the Earth and I feel like a lot of ways
we're asleep I was asleep I still am asleep in a lot like we're just you know
when when someone's asleep they just don't realize what's going on around them and but once they wake up they realize wait a minute what am I sitting
around for like whoa let like let's go do this um and I think I think Satan
tries to make the gospel seem like it's complicated and like oh well I've got to go like listen to all these hundred
hours of podcast and I've got to go read all these books to get it and I just don't have the brains for instead of
realizing like Joseph Smith is a 14-year-old boy who walks into the Grove of trees with a question and by that
night he knew more about the kingdom of God than every single one of us put together like this is actually really
simple um I'm not saying it doesn't require hard work and sacrifice but it's actually really simple
um just start studying and realizing the answers are there and I think if we
approach the gospel thinking okay God I want to know how to parent I want and I want to build Zion and I want to build
it now and I don't want to sit around waiting for 100 like again if you read Joseph Smith Joseph Smith talks about he's like there's going to be Wicked
alive on the earth during the Millennium he he starts talking about he's like Joseph Smith will be there not Joseph Smith Jesus Christ will be there part of
the time but he'll also be gone a lot of the time but he'll be visiting he he just talks about all this stuff and I
remember when I was reading these quotes I was like wait this is a different perspective of the Millennium in the second coming than kind of the
oversimplified story but all of a sudden it started making it real so Joseph Smith started talking about like if we're going to do this we got to have
the physical kingdom of God that's why he's in navoo and he's setting up when when he's ordaining men as kings that's
not just some cute little name he's saying no lion white I want you to go to
Texas and I want you to go build a city now we weren't righteous enough at the time to do it so that's why that got
pulled back it's like okay everybody like let's just all we can handle right now is just trying to behave ourselves
let's and that's kind of where we're at now but at some point we need to start moving and that's going to come from the
people that's going to come from all of us waking up and taking this seriously and if you read DNC 21 which is the
charter that the Lord gives to the church kind of like okay guys here's your mission statement go he says right
in there he says give heed to all Josephus work words and his commandments so not just the things he says oh I need
you to do this but just his advice like it's like listen to him he's smart he
knows what he's talking about Doctrine even right yes uh okay so let's finish with this um he has all of these
teachings who is Joseph Smith right in terms of uh uh I mean you I don't want
to go there okay you have like those personality tests right with all the colors or the uh intjs or whatever they
are I'm not going to ask you specifically what he is there but who is he I mean cuz what is his profile as far as the type of person that he is
and do do you think that I mean I we believe that we are all
someone already when we are born because of our premortal experience uh but how much does his does
the restoration uh maybe change him
and how maybe if you looked at his natural personality and and the role that he has to play you know what what
do we get when we when we pull those together okay this is such a good question so um when
you there's so much loaded that there's so much loaded um so one of my favorite books is
they knew the prophet and I talk about adnasium because it's just it's a compilation of people who knew Joseph
Smith personally and their stories no commentary so you literally just get firsthand
it's not filtered through anyone or historian or anything and when you start
studying those stories you start realizing holy cow this was not just a
brilliant prophit like theological thinker this guy
was I I I've never met anyone that are equal in terms of Charity compassion
wisdom um discipline being able ble to judge fairly
humor um at the same time like strong he's a wrestler like there's a reason
why sometimes we're given a bad rap of like you got Joseph Smith like on this pedestal like you just make him seem like he's just like perfect I'm sorry he
he pretty much almost was perfect now that's really controversial to say because we're in this day and age where
we have historians Galore that are just trying to tear tear tear him down like the primary purpose and I'm not saying
he was the son of God cuz he wasn't and he made mistakes but he didn't make the kind of mistakes that you and I make
he's on a whole different level and I will stand by that I will I'll stand by that testimony before Jesus Christ one
day um we have a compilation on our website on our LDS answers website and it's it's the title of the post is
Latter-Day prophets testify of Jose Smith's greatness and it's every president of the church what they said about Jose Smith so it's pretty long um
you start realizing like they multiple War their testimony they said no no greater Prophet has ever lived except
for Jesus Christ than Joseph Smith in his character we're not just talking about his mission or what he did but
actually who he was and I feel like for the last 100 years we've seen
this whole movement of revisionist History where we we've seen it with the American Founders we've seen it where
there's this attempt to to destroy an ideology or to destroy an idea you attack the character of the person now
there is a level where you got to be careful with that where you got to sometimes separate the two but there is
Merit to the argument that if someone is not a righteous person you shouldn't really give a whole lot of credence to
what they say this is what Moroni says right in I think it's Moroni 7 he says a a bitter Fountain cannot bring forth
pure water he says and a pure Fountain can't bring forth bit Bitter Water he says so the source does influence the
message again why because every single one of us sees the world around us based
on who we are you know if I'm naturally kind of more of a stingy judgmental person I'm not going to be able to share
and accurately judge things right if I don't transcend my culture I'm not going
to be able to give you good Theology and good ideology you're going to have to be careful and sift through it um so yes
Joseph Smith's Character Matters who he was matters
100% and that is why I I think right now there is a huge huge huge effort to be
like Joseph Smith was not that very great of a person he's got all these weaknesses and failings and flaws and
and I feel like we're in a situation where we've got two-year-olds questioning the parents about things they have no idea what they're talking
about you know when the 2-year-old is screaming and how dare you hate me like you know in a situation where the
parents just literally just trying to be loving and be like don't run into the street like you cannot run into the street you have to my mom is so mean
blah and you're just like you just don't know what you're talking about like one day when you're 50 years old you'll
understand why I'm not giving you Twinkies all day long and just letting you run into the street or why you have
to take a bath at night like there's just a reason why you can't understand it and I feel like we have a lot of
pygmies questioning a giant and it's just you can't voy kacker said it well
he said you cannot write prophetic history unless you have the gift of Prophecy in other words if you want to
understand Joseph Smith you're going to need to be able to have some of the gifts that he had unless you've had
Visions you can't judge or understand someone who has had Visions you can't
now none of us are Joseph Smith so to some degree none of us can fully comprehend him um but someone like a
Joseph fing Smith or someone like that they're going to understand Joseph Smith on a whole another level that someone
that has never talked to God before in their life doesn't have a clue because otherwise Joseph Smith does look like a n case in a lot of ways and he's making
these claims and you're like where in the world are you getting this um to that degree that's an extreme example
but to that degree every single one of us are going to understand Joseph Smith to the to the degree that we walk in his
steps if you actually have wrestled with God you're going to understand all of a sudden what's going on a little bit
better when he's wrestling in Liberty jail if you've actually had an endowment experience all of a sudden you're going
to understand what's going on a whole different way um so that's one of the
reasons why um sometimes I get a wrap for being a little bit of a stickler on Joseph Smith's character because but it
matters and I think one day every single one of us is going to stand before we're going to realize yeah he was incredible he is
incredible well on that not we will end I really appreciate your time and your insights I'm inspired more what is the
book here again yeah Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith teachings okay Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's teachings I'm going to
go grab that and start reading these things a little bit more so thanks so much for your time and your responsibility in uh learning all these
things and sharing it with us really appreciate it
