"Get Your Children Out of Utah's Government Schools" Alleged Corruption In Utah Schools

In a scathing post on X, Utah State Board of Education member Christina Boggess announced that she will not run for re-election and to "get your children out of Utah's government schools as quickly as possible."

In this interview, Christina outlines the corruption she has seen in Utah's education system over the last three years.

 Raw Transcript

Quick show has covered several stories on Utah education, the K to2 space, including DEI, CRT, uh, transgenders in
bathrooms, boys and girls bathrooms, the governor's office, and their emphasis
and attempts to appoint the board members on uh the Utah the Utah State
Board of Education instead of having them voted in. and what the governor has tried to push in the past uh as far as
bills going through the Senate and Congress in the state. This is just yet another story. A firestorm has built
online over the last couple of weeks as Utah State Board of Education member Christina Boggas has put out a tweet, a
post on X outlining several problems in the state and saying that she is not
going to run for reelection because she's not going to be a part of this. At the end of her post, she says that she
recommends that all parents pull their kids out of the public school system because it's that bad. allegations of
misuse of funds, corruption, not being able to get things done with the kids
being the primary benefactors. A long post that we will put in the description
box that refers back to a an email dated October 9th that she had sent to the
chair of the Utah State Board of Education. So, in this interview, Christina Boggas goes over outlines the
problems found within the school system and supports her claims. And unfortunately, this is a very similar
situation that you'll find in many school systems throughout the United States, either at the state level or the
district level, where schools are trying to take the place of parents in many
cases, and not enough individuals in positions of voting and of power in that
education system are standing up for the kids. I think you'll enjoy this interview. This interview is brought to
you by Fathom the Good, a homeschooling curriculum for high school students and
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fathomthegood.com. Here we go.
All right, welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. In this episode, we bring on Utah State Board of Education member Christina
Boggas. Christina, welcome to the show. Thank you. Okay, a lot of hoopla going on about
reports of your emails and claims that you've made about corruption within the
Utah State Board of Education. A new email has been made public that was sent out in October. On October 9th, you sent
it. There was a response from the chair of the Utah State Board of Education on the 10th
admitting pretty much to stating, well, here's what I'll I'll quote I'll quote
what it says here. It says, "Thank you, Christina. There is a lot going on and unfortunately it is not always good. I
hope things get better. This is in response to your claims, very specific claims, a codra of claims
of the corruption and problems going on within the Utah State Board of Education. Now, you obviously had
already received this email. Have you gone public with this at all in terms of the rel the back and forth here with uh
Matt Heimus, the Utah State Board of Education chair? Uh, no. I that was a grammar piece of
information and put out by the the individual who grammar it. So the the individual who grammitted it.
Okay. So tell me more about this. Was what was the response overall? Is this
the only response that you had from the chair and and and from the board in in
response to the email and I'm going to go over that in a minute here. The email that you had sent on October 9th.
So the email was was sent in response to a meeting that we had uh decided to have
because I have been long talking about corruption. It's not something that I kept secret. It's something that I spoke
about openly. Um and this is not the first email that I've sent. Um, I can recall previous to this probably sending
five or six additional emails delineating ongoing issues that I was observing and that we needed to have
better infrastructure in place to prevent this kind of corruption. Um, and and as you see in the email, it talks
about there's two different kinds of corruption and uh and that's articulated and defined. But this was not the first
time. So, we on October 8th, we had sat down and we had a meeting to discuss uh
quote unquote corruption and to kind of uh if you will um define terms and then
talk about the things that we were seeing and uh and that was a followup to
that email so that we were all on the same page coming out of it. you know, what we had talked about, what we had
discussed, and the conclusions that we drew together in that that meeting.
Okay. So, uh, let me let me get to this email here. Okay. So, the meeting that took place on October 8th, the very next
day, October 9th, you're sending the email, and I want to go over just a few things that you've stated in here. Okay.
You're you're saying that there are corrupt behaviors that were not discussed in the meeting that there was leaking or private internal documents to
the press feeding the press overtly false or misle I mean you're going pretty specific things here and making
some pretty strong claims couple more that is important uh the highle takeaways from that meeting corruption
does exist and is observed by more than just yourself Christina there are two kinds of corruption this
is kind of interesting quidd proquo money, power, influence, access or
proximity affecting votes which is documented in ongoing in occurrence and
systemic dysfunction, broken processes, secrecy and uneven rules both run
rampant at the board. I want to get that in a second, but one more I really want to go through here. Uh and that is
money, power and influence. Um, there are multiple board members trading
money, power, influence, and perceived influence, proximity, access for votes.
Those are very strong allegations. Yes. Run in here. How long have you been
serving on the board? Uh, I'm just starting my fourth year. So, I've been on the board for three years. So, you've been on for quite a while.
So, you've seen a lot. Mhm. I have. Okay. So, one of the responses on this
was from one of the senators in Utah was that you're not going through the proper
channels on this and if you could just take all this and run through the proper channels, they could investigate this. Has there been any investigation by the
board into these things that you know of? And have you gone through any other channels at this point? Uh so to my
knowledge there has been no investigation by the board which uh would be a little bit weird to have the
board investigate themselves. I I think that would be a little convoluted. I I
have engaged other channels. I've talked to the assistant attorney generals. I've spoken to the state auditor. Uh I've
gone through many channels. I've even um filed complaints with the ethics commission only to have those shut down.
um we have our own process in which we can um send things to our audit team to
have them reviewed but again it's the board investigating the board which
history has proven is not a fair and sporting process. It's also typically
not a um a truthful process if you will. And so uh I've I exhausted those avenues
and we had this meeting. I followed up. I did my due diligence and and so when I
had posted that to Twitter, just to be fair, I had done all the things that I
was supposed to do behind closed doors and um and so it just is what it is.
Okay. So, what what would be the next steps at this point if we want to get information because this seems to be a problem. I've I've gone through this
before with other individuals, board members also that have that have talked about the problems on the board and in the
education system in the state of Utah. Uh very unhappy with what is going on there in in many different things. But
if you've talked to the auditor, you've talked to others, you know, and these you're getting stonewalled on all of these things. What is the solution? What
is the answer for this? Well, when I when I put my post on Twitter um or X rather, I I said that
I've basically viewed the the actions of the board as merely performative and
that it was just a theatrical show and and so I I just felt like my time could
be used better in other arenas and so that I was stepping out of that. So when
you question what can we do about this? Mhm. My response is that's a great
question. Okay. So, there's not a clear avenue for response on this because I know others
have tried these things, right? The same kind of thing. There's a everyone just seems to get stonewalled
when they're trying to go through some investigations. I mean, whether it's money or or whether it is policy.
Um there seems to be a a I mean, these people are voted in. You're voted in.
Yes. and and so and yet it's there doesn't seem to ever be change. I mean, I've been covering to some degree Utah
education K to2 for for four or five years now. Yes. No change.
It if I were to be super honest, we have um
we've made small incremental changes that are actually positive. Um, and I
would argue that those have come mostly in the past few
months. However, we have sold our children to the wolves one small
compromise after another and some big compromises through our cowardice,
through our lack of action, and through just simply trying to find um this word
that's used on the board balance. And by trying Mhm. by trying to find
balance, then what we do is we compromise away our values. And it seems
to me uh I I'll just be honest. I'm not a native Uton. And what I noticed when I
moved here, if I could if I could use my hands on your show, Greg, um is that in
Utah, uh negotiations go like this. One end of the table, the other end of the
table. This person says, "I think this." And then the the average Utah
representative says, "I disagree." And this person says, "I think this." And they say, "I disagree."
And then they say, "I think this." And they say, "I disagree." And pretty soon
they're sitting right here together and they've compromised away 95%
of what they believe in the interest of kindness or getting along, in the
interest of peacemaking. Yeah, I would say niceness more than kindness. It just seems like a passive.
This is so common. It honestly is so common, unfortunately.
And it just allows for things to continue to go. Uh I mean, we're talking about kids here. We're talking about our
kids, our grandkids, and and no one there are very few people
that will really stand up in these situations, especially here. And you'd think that in a place like
Utah that you would have members that are on a board that are strong and are
unwavering and are going to watch out for the kids more. Um but it it's it's odd and there are so
many examples of this. I mean there's audio, there's video, there's so many things that have happened in the last several years.
Yes. That are really very concerning. Well, and I would offer that some of our
most loud and bombastic members at present are the most cowardly when it
comes to manifesting a vote. So, for example, it's very easy to be courageous
on the campaign trail when you're trashing everybody else. Sure. It takes a lot more courage to turn that
campaign trail into a vote that effectuates positive long-term change.
And the reality is I'm not seeing board members who have turned their campaign
trail into what's happening on the board for positive change. I I just am not
seeing that. Can you give me some more specifics about what you're saying as far as the cowardice goes? I mean, we don't need to
drop any names or anything like that, but but what about policies for that are
supporting the kids, whether it's uh LGBTQ pride issues or are there money
issues going on that are that are unacceptable in at the board? What What
else is happening here? Um well, we're going to come back to this and I need you to bring me back in.
Is that okay? Okay. All right. So, let's just start with one example. For example, on the campaign trail, we had um a member of our board
who just lambasted their opponent over a very specific policy. They repeatedly lamblasted them. They spoke about very
specific lines in this rule. It was R277-217. And they bered their opponent using this
rule as the reason they should elect them and not their opponent. And since
this person has taken their seat on the board, that very rule has come before the board at least three times. And
during that time, they have voted in the affirmative to keep it in the same framework and with the same words that
they lambasted their opponent over. And even when I made a direct and overt
motion to remove the language that this individual discussed in their debate and
on the campaign trail, they voted against removing it. That's just one very specific example.
Let me come back to the I want to come back to this here for a second here. Your your experience here. So, you've
been there in your fourth year now. You've got you've seen an awful lot of what has been happening. This is your
your tweet that you put out in just a week ago or so, a week or two ago on January 2nd. Uh, and I'm going to
read some of this here. My fellow citizens of District 8 and great state of Utah, where is District 8, by the
way? District 8 covers Taylor'sville, Karns, and West Jordan. Okay. Today, I declare without apology
or hesitation that I will not seek re-election to the Utah State Board of Education. I am done lending my name, my
vote, and my silence to a broken, corrupt, and morally bankrupt system that no longer serves the children or
families of this state. So you must think at this point, Christina, that
I mean I mean why would you essentially say you're not going to re run again if
you think that there's so much more that needs to be done? So I think the answer to that is at the
bottom. So if you would scroll down, Greg. Sure. I think the answer is right there at the bottom. I say in here um if if you
scroll up just a little bit, I say I will not play this game any longer. I
refuse to be a prop in their theater of fake reform. And I I've spoke openly at the board me
at the board meetings. This is not something that's a secret that many times I view the acts of the board as
merely performative when we are elected to govern but yet we're merely just
rubber stamping. Um it it is my opinion just just my opinion and I believe other
people who are libertyloving individuals would agree with me. We are not a board that should be um told what to do by our
CEO and we are not a board that should be managed by the staff of our agency.
We should be a board that directs staff and the staff goes out and enacts what
the board has asked them to do. And in many cases that's not happening. and and
it's it's deeply sad in my opinion um that we are in a place where uh I I
listen to my fellow board members and they say, "Christina, you voted no on that, but but nobody presented a case to
vote no." And and I debated with this board member. I said, "Do you mean to
tell me that that your default answer is yes, unless somebody proves the case?
Because my default answer is no unless someone proves the case.
And because I view myself as as elected to speak the people's voice into the
system, not the system's voice into the people.
I I just don't believe that's appropriate. And so, um, it's just an
interesting way of of viewing government. But I would like to see this board govern. And it seems like many
times our actions are merely performative and they just don't really affectuate change. So when you say performative, I mean you
say performative, but but what you're saying is is that when things are brought forward, the default is yes
instead of people standing up and saying no. Um it's more passivity it seems to
me that that is happening by because you're saying there are a number of individuals that may not agree with with
what is being proposed but then they just go along with it. Oh yes. In fact many times an individual
on the board has leaned over to me and said you've got to vote along to get
along Christina. You're not going to get anywhere if you keep if you keep this up. Well you do
you. But I don't believe in voting along to get along. I believe in voting my
conscience. And and and I'll be honest with you, Greg. I believe that when when
I face the Lord face to face, I answer for not just my actions outside the boardroom, but for every vote I've ever
made as a representative of the people in this state. And I believe that I will account for that. And I I will not vote
against my conscience for access or um somebody picking up my phone call or an
at a boy or a special gift with a little bit of, you know, weird flowers on them.
No, I'm not trading my vote for that. First of all, that's a cheap cell and I'm more expensive than that. But
secondly, um it's just a bad way to govern in my opinion. Now, these issues
of you're you're talking about issues of corruption here and you're saying, "Okay, I I'm not
going to be a part of this any longer." Uh, it's to the point for you where
where you say here, "My final message to every parent in Utah is blunt and
urgent. Get your children out of Utah's government schools as quickly as
possible. Real change is not coming." They've been saying that for years.
The system is not broken. It is working exactly as the corrupt intend it to
work. Your children's minds, hearts, and futures are not safe inside it. So again, that is a very strong statement.
Um I have ba having studied education in Utah here for for a number
of years now and and being a a a somewhat of an insider, at least
adjacent to an insider. Yes. uh on on these things. I I understand why you're coming to this
conclusion. How are the children's minds, hearts, and futures not safe? We were talking
about money and other policies, but what about the children? How are their minds, hearts, and futures not safe inside
the school system in Utah? Well, let let's just start with um I'm
going to give you some highle examples. Hearts, minds, and futures. So for example, when we have dumbed down our
academic standards and we've created these convoluted things that no one understands and um teachers across the
state are like these are not good. Um veteran teachers who have been through
not just one or two but they've been through like three or four sometimes even five standard cycles in their
career and they're going what are we doing here? And when our standards are
written in a manner that our kids are not getting a good education, I would argue that their future is not safe in
that system. And when um when I am personally
witnessed to or are receiving multiple emails and conversations and feedback um
one teacher approached me in tears and member Boggas this past year the
behavior was so bad in my classroom I only got through two months of content.
I would argue that the academic future of the students inside that space who
were genuinely trying, who wanted to do good work and desired to learn, I would
argue that their future is not safe in an environment that allows behaviors to
persist and rule the environment at large. When um one of the things that's
very common in Utah are their evacuation drills. So, when uh a student has an
emotional episode and they decide to throw chairs or stab people with pencils or kick the teacher, um there's a number
of things that I could describe, but it it's an evacuation drill where instead of removing the student who's engaging
in the behavior, they remove all the rest of the students for their own safety.
and and I'm thankful that they're keeping those students safe. But when those things are happening on a regular
basis, sometimes um many teachers have shared with me that their classrooms were evacuated almost three times a day
for almost two weeks. Wow. And I would argue that education is not happening in that space.
And that a teacher refining their craft and getting better and better at what they're doing is not happening in that
space because that teacher is just trying to survive. And those children are are not they're not emotionally safe
and they're not physical physically safe as evidenced by the fact that we're removing them from the classroom.
And and so if you go back to what I wrote, their hearts, minds, and future.
So let that's the future. Let's go to the heart. We have over and over again
discussed the ideological capture of our education system. You've covered it on
your show. This is not a secret. So there has been a lot of work. I put a
lot of work into this. One of the things that I really focused hard on was um the
repeal of R277328. It was absolutely necessary and um and I
was told in a sitdown meeting not on your life that discussion will never happen and I worked very very hard and
the discussion did happen and and the board made moderate stride strides in
making it better but it is it's still not good. And the reality is is even
though we're making small strides in the right direction, there's no fundamental
change to the front line. When I ask my peers and my colleagues, how is your
classroom different today than it was 5 years ago? Take away COVID, take away
the pandemic, how has your classroom changed for the better because of the policies we're making?
And the answer is the answer is it's not better. Yeah. In fact, many teachers would argue that
it's worse because and it goes to what I said before. We've made incremental
small good things, but we've compromised so far in the other direction, we've
negated any good work that we've done. And so, and so that covers um you know,
the the future. Let's talk about um the mind. when
when you look at the history of public education in the United States, I know you've covered that. I know you know all
about it, but um it is extremely hostile to people of faith. And sometimes, you
know, I I take great heat. They're like, "Oh, you're talking about Christians." No, I'm talking about people of faith.
So whether you're Muslim, Jew, Christian, Latter-day Saint, whatever,
the system itself is hostile toward people of faith. And it is deeply
concerning to me that we are continuing to perpetuate um a framework
of education that directly contradicts the values, attitudes, and beliefs that children children are taught at home and
that families hold dear. Can you give me some examples of that? I mean, how is that happening? I mean, I I
support that 100%, but from your here's one thing, two, two-part question on that. How is that happening? And number
two, what is the job of the board in that instance as as compared to maybe
district representatives and and and principles, etc., because you're talking
about basically a a statewide systemic issue, it sounds like.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So, I'm going to respond to that with a Bible
verse. So, 1 Timothy 1:8-11 out of the King James version says, "But we know
that the law is good if a man use it lawfully.
Knowing this, the law is not made for a righteous man,
but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for the sinners, for the unholy and profane, for the murderers of
fatherers and and murderers of mothers, for mansllayers, for wararmongers,
and for them that defile themselves with mankind, for manstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if
there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according according to the glorious gospel of the
blessed God which was committed to my trust. And so Paul in this this Bible
verse he's talking so seriously about the war the law is not for the righteous
man and where the board fails in my opinion repeatedly fails is they operate
under the assumption that they're writing and they are governing under the presupposition that everyone is
inherently good and they enact rule with the idea that everyone can be trusted.
And so when those rules are thought and effectuated to their logical conclusion,
they're they're not effective at all because we're not making rules for the
lawless man. We're we're doing something totally different in that space. And I
would argue that if our state started to govern as as Tim as Paul is telling
Timothy here, that we make laws for those who are unrighteous, for those who
are outside the boundaries. And I think it is totally appropriate for us to say,
you know what, here's the boundaries and here you must stop. This boundary
belongs solely to mom and dad. You don't get to go there. This boundary belongs
at home. You don't get to go there. Your job in the education system is reading,
writing, arithmetic, musical skill, maybe even woodworking skill if you're
in a high school setting and etc. as that blossoms out. But there you must
stop. And we not only I I wouldn't say we do a poor job. So I would say we
absolutely are derelictked in our duty to reign in the overarching overreaching
um space violating
arms of the education system and we pretend like this is okay. And there are
students, Greg, in our schools. I teach them and and my heart breaks. I I teach
them and they have real needs and they have real issues at home. That is very
true. And we can provide for those needs and we can um accommodate anomalies. But
it seems like in this state we like to legislate to the survey of one as
opposed to um encompassing self-government because when the government usurps the
role of the parent they then will complain that the parent is derelict in their duty.
But as such with dependent people when the government usurps the family's role
the family usually doesn't do its job very well. And so we're we're in that
space where we're not making rules in a way that is going to produce change because we're not reigning in the
lawless ones. Yeah. We're not reing the lawless. And then also it seems to me that that that we're we're less and less family
centered. In other words, and parent centered as a culture, right? So so it's like, you know, we're we're we're outsourcing
to some degree the parenting to the teachers. Uh and and it's become it's a spiral.
It's becoming more and more common to do that. And then you expect the responsibility of the teacher to be
there in place for things well beyond just their their education. They're talking about their morality and their
their framework of of a world view, everything, right? And so it's it's kind
of a spiral because for example, I've got a daughter that that teaches in a high school setting and it's the same
thing. She's like I I don't understand sometimes how parents expect that we should be doing this or
we should be taking care of this. So I think it is two sides but anywhere that an organization or an
individual who has a certain charge a certain mantle in place like a the education board
right you are naturally going to expand your
your domain everybody does this right you're naturally going to expand your domain
further and further because at first you feel like this is our responsibility we're going to take on the
responsibility And sometimes you have to say, well, where are the checks and balances that
are going to be in place here? Because certainly from everything that's been going on in
in the Utah education system, there are not enough checks and balances going on.
Absolutely. In in the K to2 space. It's just something is rotten.
Well, absolutely. And I I think when you say something's wrong in the K to2 space, I I I feel like people are giving
me undue credit. Like I'm the first person that's ever said something's wrong in the K12 space. Absolutely
false, as you know. But uh just as an example, 2021 the office of the Utah
Auditor General, we call it OLAG. um we uh we get an audit from them and it says
and and I'm I'm quoting that K12 public ed has a quote culture of non-compliance
end quote and audit after audit after audit. It says we're passing laws and
you're not doing anything. Mhm. Well, part of the reason that they're not responding to these laws is a they
have no teeth. The laws have no teeth. the laws have no teeth.
And then two, what we often forget is that Utah's legislature has a culture of
what I uh have termed and this term is now used at large and so I'm proud of it, but I call them placation bills. And
it's where there's an outcry. There's an outcry from the public. We need something done. It's it is um it's
enough is enough, right? And people come up to the legislature and they support these bills and in many cases they're
very well worded. They've got good text in them. And then when you read far
enough they are except as and this is exempt. Except is this except is this.
Except is provided by in this code. Well, many people don't go and check
those code lines. I however when I'm reading a bill those are the first things I look for. A what does it say? B
what does it do? And C is it accepted or exempted anywhere.
And so what we see is we see what would otherwise possibly be good code become
ultimately neutered and ineffective in public at large because it's accepted and exempted into nothingness. And just
as an example, DEI is not dead. We had we had a an anti-Dei law passed
in our state. Um it had multiple exemptions and exceptions. And if you
look at what is happening in K12 at at large, um even if you look at what's happening at the USB, we are not in
compliance with this code. as evidenced by the fact that when the Trump administration said, "We would like for
you to sign this affidavit and we would like you to send it back to us asserting that you are no longer engaged in um
illegal DEI practices and they they sent a letter. They delineated all of it legally and the Utah State Board of
Education refused to sign it." Yes, I remember seeing this in the news. And so the the fact that we um are
saying, "Hey, not only are we going to do DEI, we don't care what you say, um
despite the fact that these are are literally illegal under the the Civil Rights Act of 1964, among many others."
But um those are things that happen all the time in this state. And and I would
like to see us get back to to better governing so that we can see change on
the front lines. And when I say the front lines, I mean the classroom.
The classroom. We need smaller class sizes. And
I'm done. I apologize. Next question. Oh, that's okay. That that's great. So, one more thing I want to go into again
and come back to is you you you had had some allegations in your your email on
uh individuals trading money. There was corruption, financial corruption it seemed. Is is that are you speaking of
as trading money in terms of uh budget allocations,
etc. Or are you talking about actual enrichment of individuals? You just hit one that I had not actually
thought of, but there's something I'm going to go research right now, Greg, because that
very well could be. Um, I'm actually speaking of
uh, you know, there's a law in Utah and I believe it's $50 is the maximum. So,
elected officials cannot accept gifts in excess of $50. Well, I would ask um,
anybody to ask the board members that attended the governor's gayla who purchased their ticket.
And when you're done with that question, ask them who purchased their spouse's ticket.
Mhm. And as you know, the governor's gayla is expensive to attend. So just
that question alone answers many other questions. But then when our board was
made partisan, I believe the the law passed um in 2014. It was litigated,
went into effect shortly after, and the first election was in 2018.
They they came took office in 2018 maybe. I believe that's it. Um you can
fact check me and put it on the screen. Um but when our board was made partisan,
um that came with an element of monetary
influence that uh that I don't think I'd ever seen before. And I had boardwatched the board
for quite a while. And and by that we have now uh sitting public officials
taking a keen interest in board of education uh races. We have uh outside
lobbyist organizations and they've always been involved but the partisan race
exacerbated those things. And so now we have this element of money over here.
And then we have this element of marionetting over here. And and we start to see that promises made on the
campaign trail quickly disappear with campaign donations. and and so what we're saying to the
public is not manifesting in a vote. There there are a couple board members who are very loud on the internet.
Interestingly enough, I'm not loud on the internet, but uh I I guess I was two
weeks ago, but they're very loud on the internet. But what what people don't understand is that that voice is not
manifesting into action in the boardroom. And in many cases, um, I I
would call it puppeting that there are things that are board members who are puppeted by different members of the
legislature and sometimes they speak about it openly on the public record. Other times it's in other spaces. And so
those things are happening and and I always wonder when I'm looking at disclosures.gov,
I am always wondering when money is coming in during non-election cycles, what's it for?
that that always causes me um a little consternation. And so I would just leave
that to people to investigate on their own. Um because I have sent that through the channels and I'm not going to ruin
an investigation by by spilling it here, if that makes sense.
What uh what involvement does the governor have in all of this?
too much. So the Utah Constitution does not give any any control or supervision of
education to the governor. I know they tried to change that a few years back. They in fact I believe they wanted to
make it so that the governor appointed the board members. I might be wrong on that, but I think that's what they were
trying to do. No, you are correct. Um, uh, that bill was run by Representative Ballard in the
the Utah State Legislature to have the governor appoint, uh, the board members,
but that was previously determined unconstitutional. It had, you know, people had been sued.
It went through the courts. So, they can they can try, but it will probably be
determined unconstitutional again. Mhm. And so, uh, constitutionally here in
this state, the governor has no say in education, but the reality is what's constitutional is
not always what is happening on the front lines. Um, the con uh, the governor has an education adviser, he
has an education budget, he um, has input on the the budget uh, for
education. and it is what it is and it's been happening
for as long as I have been in Utah. Uh but
I I don't know what else you would like me to say there. Okay. All right. Yeah. I I just always wonder about that because I know he he's
he's always he he's had uh uh an
emphasis of having a pretty strong involvement in in education and and in
bills that affected education. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I I don't think excuse
me I don't think there's anything wrong with having an opinion. I have lots of opinion. I go to the legislature every
year. I have sat at the table in ed committee time after time, many times
presenting bills with a legisl legislature beside me. Um, in other capacities, I've been there to testify
for or against different pieces of legislation. I've testified against my own board saying, "I know that there was
a vote to ask you to do this, and I'm telling you I voted against it, and this is why I think it's bad policy for these
reasons." and and so you know having an opinion everybody can have an opinion
but when you leverage um and coersse through intimidation I think those are
very very different things interfacing I praise having conversations I praise
when you start flipping power levers uh I think that the public should be concerned when that starts to happen and
and I would I would just ask again why are we spending taxpayer money in that area. We have a board of education
elected by the people and we have high level government officials having
education summits and there's people notably absent and those are the people
who are constitutionally charged with the oversight of K12 public ed. They're
just not at the table and I would call that that is something deeply wrong with with what's going on here in this state.
So, finally here, what again, you're you're calling on parents and saying, "Hey, maybe you should be taking your
kids out of the public schools." Uh, and it's that bad is the way you see it, right? So, I I'm
guessing that means homeschooling is the only other option or going to a maybe a charter school as a hybrid thing and or
maybe a private school. But, uh, what can be done? I mean, obviously, if it can't be done from the inside,
what what needs to be done here? Is it done at a higher level, at a governor level? Is it done by the parents? What
what can be done to actually make an actual change in the system? Oh, you ask great questions, Greg. One
is I believe our legislature needs to get down and do the dirty work of
repealing the bad code that has been passed through the years. Many of the things happening in our schools that
parents are overwhelmingly opposed to are actually mandated through our state
legislature and codified into law. So repealing that bad code would be step
one in a multi-step process. Um, number two would be actually passing codified
things that prohibit schools from crossing boundaries that are not
appropriate. Um, uh, third, I think that as we look at schools, um, you know, my post, I I
should probably apologize. There are good teachers out there. I work with them. Of course. Of course.
There there are I work with them. And so I try not to paint with a broad brush. However,
I think that as we look into the the future of homeschooling,
um I think that you know a very wise woman once said that if you do not
sacrifice for your children, you will sacrifice your children. And there are
so many resources in this state. Our homeschooling numbers have skyrocketed. And there are resources. There are
homeschool co-ops. And uh one of my favorite posts on X ever was a Utah mom
who was a teacher and she had quit to raise her babies. And she said, "I went to the homeschool co-op to impart my
wisdom upon all these homeschool mamas so that they could be better at their job. and I was met with a master's
degree in Russian studies, a twice published novelist, uh, and all of these
highly educated women that choose to homeschool their their children. And, um, I think that people would be
shocked at what they find in homeschool co-ops because these these people, moms
and dads alike, are some of the smartest people I've ever interfaced with. And so, I think those resources are out
there. I think building a parallel system that that is outside government
oversight at all is one of the most important things we can do and making the sacrifices that are necessary in our
homes to ensure the future of our children. If that means you drive a 20-year-old car, that's what it means.
If it means maybe you don't go to Hawaii twice a year, that's what it means. It
can mean different things for different families. And you know, I've been a single mom. I understand that plight. I
do. But I also understand that when you are members of a community like the
different pocket communities that exist here in this state, your community will
come around you and help you with your children. And that's one of the things
that I do love about Utah is the the communities that rise up around each other to help and support in times of
need. And there's always a season to give back. There was a season in my life
where I humbly had to receive and then there's been a season in my life when
I've been allowed to give. And so I would love to see that happen in this state. And I do think that's a solution.
But public ed, I would start at the legislature and if we could champion a year of repeal, I would cheer.
A year of appeal. Repeal. Repeal. A year of repeal. Yes. A year of repeal. Yeah. Just repealing
bad code. Uh, is there anything else you need to speak up on? Anything else you want to
get out in this in this interview? Oh, you know what? If if I could, um,
you know, I think sometimes when people such as myself, we leave and and I'm
going to be here for the next year. I'm not going anywhere. Um, but when we say, you know what, I just don't think this
is the place God is calling me to anymore. Um people forget that we did
good while we were there. And and so if I could just talk about a
few good things. Sure. Um I I would love to just kind of put that out there into this space. So you
know I I do think that that the education system is this political machine that protects itself. Uh it has
little intent on rewarding positive change. And I think that real reform
requires, especially in the political realm, it requires courage and clarity and willingness to spend political
capital. And uh I I would just offer that while I've been on the board, it it
has been some of the most glorious times in my life when my words become the
vernacular of the space. And if you listen to board meetings, I am quoted
15 20 times a day because the work that I have done in that space has been
received by my peers and then rearticulated out in the space. And uh
one of the things you hear people say is words matter. Another thing that you hear people say is there's no such thing
as a friendly amendment. There's there's conversation in that space that has come
full term because of the work that I've put in and because myself and others on
the board have done so much by lifting hard conversations into the public space
and letting them happen. Then we see things out in the in the public sphere
in town halls in forums where what we we had to bring to the public table and
took great heat for those conversations are now happening in town halls during an election cycle.
And that's important that that people remember that. I think that it's
important to remember that every time I make a motion to fix something because
words matter, I'm batting a hy pretty high batting average and those are
important things. And if I had any advice to the people that we are talking
to in this space, I would offer that people need to speak their truth more often. And um if I had any regrets, it's
that I did not speak often enough because I have learned these past two
weeks that I spent three years, three years talking about corruption behind
closed doors and doing my very best to work through what was available to me.
But when I spoke publicly, they finally started talking about it. And and that
would be my encouragement to others. I hope that wasn't too long. No, that's great. Yeah, there's no question. Something I I talk about often
is this niceness culture that we seem to have as Latter Day Saints as an example and in the Utah community. And it's it's
it's putting niceness and politeness. Niceness I don't feel very good about.
Kindness I do, but uh politeness seems to be this value that is above all
things. It's above all things including truth. Mhm. And so we don't have, as you said, the hard
conversation sometimes because we're afraid of any conflict. Yes. And and that is that is not
that's not the gospel and that is not the right thing to do. And and so I hope
that, you know, we don't fall into that spiral of silence and we're able to speak out a lot more.
That doesn't mean you have to be contentious, but this is just another example that you're bringing up here of
of problems where people need to speak up and and don't be passive
and we're becoming a very passive people and uh other people are not passive and
they are getting their way and it's not always the right way. Yeah, absolutely. This state when it is
gone will not be lost by a seismic event. No, it it it has been lost lost one
compromise at a time. Yeah. By by compromising our values a little bit at a time. Utah will be a lost state
very shortly. And and that makes me sad. Well, Christina, thanks so much for
coming on and talking about these issues, these hard issues. They're important. Uh, and we'll follow up with
you to see how things go moving forward with mine. Really appreciate it. Oh, I really appreciate it, Greg. Thank
you so much.