The Battle for Latter-day Saint Women

Lauren Yarro on feminism, careerism, family, and finding God’s will as a modern woman The World Is Coming for Latter-day Saint Women The Lie of Careerism for Women The Most Influential Thing a Woman Can Do The Rise of the LDS Female Apologist

 Raw Transcript:

Why do so many women leave the church? I started talking about this a few years ago. And mostly the backlash that I got on this whenever I've done one of these
episodes is you're a misogynist. Uh you shouldn't be talking about things this way. This is just isn't true. Women are
the strength of the church. And you know all of these different responses that won't allow any of us to actually look at the data to see what is happening.
Women are lo leaving the church. All ages more than men, but especially young
women that are from the the millennial generation, Gen Z. They're they are leaving the church at higher rates, much
higher rates than men are. And we have to address it. We need to talk about it.
You can't just put your head in the sand and pre pretend that you know the old way of doing things of uh you know
blaming this on the guys or something or well well maybe they didn't answer this right. This is st when I first started
talking about this I was basing it off of major massive large nationwide
surveys and studies that were done. And recently a BYU study came out this year and confirms all of it because they're
using the same data. They may be splicing it up a little bit differently, but it's they're they're using the same data. And so we need to address this. We
have a messaging to women, for example, from the church that just says it's I don't know if it's working. I don't know
if it's working. It's like we're going into a spiral. We keep focusing in on the women and focusing in on the women. What is the message?
And and yes, there are issues with men.
And yes, there are problems where you have um you know, a number of men that are that are hooked on pornography or
gaming or they they haven't grown up as much. They're not taking on as much responsibility. All of those things are true. And so there is less of a pool
perhaps for women to choose from. But I would suggest it works the other way, too. There is less of a pool for men to choose from. That's not being
doomsdayish. It's just, hey, our culture has really changed and we need to look at it and then
change what our messaging is and change how we parent and teach and go back to
some basics perhaps that we've let loose of for the last several decades as our culture has kind of taken over and we've
got social media and the internet and all of these voices that re-educate our young Latter-day Saints into a different
world view. So, in this episode, I bring on one of my favorite Latter-day Saint influencers, Lauren Yarao, to talk about
this. She's very direct, very uh sincere in the way that she talks and what she addresses. And we talk about this
because there is a battle online, especially for Latter-day Saint women, and they are coming for the women. This
is another thing I said a few years ago that everybody laughed at me about was that you're going to have the biggest
exmo anti-Mo uh anti- Mormon more influencers online are going to be women.
And and sure enough, look what we have.
And why would there be that? Because there's a demand for it. There's a there was a void for it. Women are on social
media a lot more. Not just they're on it, they engage with it more. They're on it have way more screen time than young
men do. And so it's natural for women that are bitter about the church or that
want to fight against the church to reach women online.
And now we have a number of very successful young
female anti- Mormons and influencers online that dominate what the men were doing before. I mean, it's not even close now.
The the rate of growth and and they've overcome the subscribe subscriber base and the number of views and engagement, everything.
But we won't talk about it. We don't want to talk about it so much. And thank goodness there are so many young
faithful female Latterday Saint women that are pushing back on so much of this. And Lauren is one of those. I think you're going to enjoy this
discussion very much. This episode is brought to you by the Alaska Frontier Cruise coming September 5th through
12th. It's myself, my wife Elaine, and Steve Dalton. We will be going through the beauty of the coast of Alaska and we would love to have you there with us.
We'll have presentations. Uh experience the scenery together, be together on the ship and on the excursions. Go to
quickdia.com up at the top to trips and events and scroll down to Alaska Frontier. Here we go with Lauren.
Lauren, why are so many women leaving the church?
I think that the high criticism is coming to the women. I think that critics of the church are focusing on
women and it's coming from a lot of other women as well. And I think it really just comes
down to not feeling like they have a place where they are fully heard, where they're fully needed, where they have as much responsibility as their male counterparts.
And so I think that that hurts them. And then when people tell them that there's more empowerment, there's more opportunity
outside, some are quick to heed that and listen to that. But I'm really sensitive
to that issue. I have a lot of women that are in my DMs who are on the fence
and I feel like I can have a lot of empathy and understanding when bad experiences have happened in the church
and you feel like the place where you're supposed to be going for refuge isn't that and things that you're supposed to be doing can become scrupulous and you can feel overwhelmed.
Um, I can understand how that happens and it's just we live in a complex world and there's going to be voices that are
loud on both sides and right now the voices are targeting women and they're coming from other women which is why I
think we're seeing women leave more than men at this rate because before women weren't even a part of the conversation in terms of criticism.
Yeah. and and uh a medium to or a voice for those other women. So, this is something that seems to have been happening a lot more recently, right?
The the decline in retention for women, for example, in the church has been much more of a recent phenomena. Is this social media? Is this part of it also?
Is it because of the the uh issues that they're having or or
their perceptions or um equality or whatever those issues are that seem to
create this tension between them and the church? Has it always been there, but now there's just more of a voice that's out there? And so there's like, hey, I'm not alone with this.
You know, for some women it's always been there. But I think that women are naturally very empathetic. And when you hear another woman cry out her story
that was painful, you can't help but be like, am I part of the problem? Am I a part of a a program, an organization, that is the problem? And so, is it
happening to more women? I don't think like are more women experiencing this? I don't know. I think more women are being exposed to other people's stories that they weren't familiar with.
And it's hard not to feel for those individuals and then um question like
what but there there's so many different issues, right? I think social media does play an impact in we have so many women of our faith and within Utah who are
influencers who put on this life of I have it all and I'm successful and then they leave the church and they're like and I'm so happy and this is so good.
And I think that's a real thing that looks enticing to some and is pulling them away as well.
There seems to be an explosion of female Latter Day Saint influencers on Instagram especially
um which has been fantastic, right? More of a voice.
It seems to be in some degree a response to that criticism that's been out there. It seems like a lot of those influencers are
framing things that are a almost an apologetic of of a response to what criticism comes
online a lot from the the more high-profiled critics of the church right on Instagram.
But some of it also as a matter of what you do a lot of and do a great job of is a lot of like this is my life. this is who I am and this is what brings me joy
and and and and displaying uh the practical side of the gospel in their lives.
Um are both of these as effective effective is do you think that this has become more effective in social media in
in pushing back on some of this criticism?
Yeah, I think so because I get dozens of messages a day of women being like, "Well, thank you for showing your side and helping me like see this side." Um,
I actually just did an interview with Bloomberg and they asked me like why so many Utah influencers. And I think there's there's two categories you're
talking about here. There's the lifestyle influencers, which we sure have a lot of them within Mormon culture.
Then there's those who are making content specifically about the church to try to combat the criticism. And I would put myself in this category.
Um, I'm an apologist. That's my the title that I've taken on. And I mainly and only make content to try to combat
the criticism and the perception of Mormon online because I don't feel like it's accurate to my my experience. And
then over here we have lifestyle influencers who do rarely ever talk about the church, but you know they're Mormon. They have five kids. They live
in Lehi and their beautiful house and they just talk about their makeup routines and their fashion. And I think that they are just as effective at
helping people want to stay in the church as I am. In fact, in some ways they might be more effective. Why? Why is that?
I I think people don't like the church being shoved at them on social media.
The platform for social media is made for this kind of content. It's not made for my content except for the fact that it's controversial. So that's what like
makes my content go viral is just the controversy around it.
But a lot of members, especially women, I don't think they want that kind of content. I don't think they want to be associated with um an aggressive
apologetic stance from the church. Some of them do and we see that we see that growing, but I would I in my opinion and I have a digital marketing background,
social media is my expertise. I feel like um this category of lifestyle
influencers can be more effective when they just casually bring up get ready with me while I get ready for church.
That's all they're doing. And people are like that's fascinating. They go to church. What church do they go to? You know, whereas when I'm over here and I'm
saying here's my response to why I don't drink coffee, it just is it's so in your face for some people. And that's not
what social media I think is meant. I don't think a lot of people go there to learn. I think a lot of people go there to be entertained.
So, I don't know if I even answered your question.
No, I think I think you did. But but still, I I still ask why. Why is that?
You know, why it seems like you have a very good audience. I mean, you've got a a growing audience, a large audience.
Uh so, somebody's watching what you're doing.
Yeah, I feel like I bridge the gap a little bit. I do. I feel like I'm in the middle. Mhm.
Um I do want to show just naturally how my life is blessed by the gospel, but I also hold my home life very sacred and I
don't want to expose it to the online. So like if you see my kids on my social media, it's like very rare and I'm still talking about something that's
mostly focused on me and that's hard because that's like the fruit of the gospel. Like my family is my richest
fruit that I am enjoying. And so I I feel like I protect that from social media, but I do want girls to know that
I'm normal, that I'm happy, that I'm cool, that I'm cute, that I have a happy husband and a happy life. And so I try
to convey that in very like subtle ways because I do think that's that's effective marketing and that's that's what brings people in. So the other
women that are doing just uh lifestyle Mhm.
is a is a messaging that is similar to that and saying look I'm normal. I'm a member and I'm normal.
Yeah.
And here's my normaly as you're watching it. Yeah.
And you're normal and it's okay to be a Latter- Day Saint. Yeah.
And so that you feel that's more more effective.
I think it is. Yeah. The only reason I'm not doing it fully is just because there's two main parts. I hate our consumerism world we live in.
Consumption grosses me out. And to do that, well, you have to get paid to tell people to buy stuff.
And that's like what you're doing as a lifestyle influencer. You are telling people to buy the things that you are using. And like to me, that's like I
can't authentically do that at all. And so I I I don't usually tap into that.
And then like the other part is just the sacredness of my life, my day-to-day. I don't know if I want to show people my day-to-day because it's special to me.
Yeah. Yeah. You want to keep that private.
Uh so
women usually are a little bit more collective, right? They're going to be influenced more by what others are doing
than men sometimes are. M social media, it seems to me, can be a very powerful thing either way, right?
So, if I've got more women that are being critical of the church, then that might be very effective. But if I've got
even more women that are positive about the church, it becomes a lot more effective. I think that there was a void for quite some time.
Yeah. Of positive messages from the church.
And even from an apologetic standpoint, I what I
see is that it be it becomes very effective for someone to be able to articulate what they can't already articulate.
Yes. So, if I've seen somebody articulate an issue that maybe my friends are telling me and I don't know
how to respond, it's like I believe this, but I don't know how to say it or I may have not even found words for whatever I'm feeling.
Exactly.
This is a an avenue a media a medium to to be able to start articulating these things. Yes.
From someone who has articulated them.
Why are you able to articulate it so well?
the spirit, the Heavenly Father has asked me to do this. I It's funny because things come together and there I
I feel like so many of the women of in the space feel this. We can turn stuff around so quickly when we're supposed to like when an issue comes up and people
are talking about something like I will immediately know I need to respond and this is how I'm going to respond and I will put my phone up. I will have no
script. I will say prayer and then I will just hit record. And most of the time you'll find my videos in my car because that's the only place where my kids can't find me at the house, you
know. And it's it truly is only because I was willing to put the phone up and put my
face on social media that now Heavenly Father has said, "Okay, I will help you and give you the power to know what to say." And I don't say everything right.
I of course not. But I do think that that's the role that I feel I'm supposed to play is helping women who feel
frustrated, misrepresented, um, unaware, unsure of how to articulate, they don't feel like they're smart enough or that they know the
doctrine enough. I get those comments all the time. And I'm like, I don't know if I know the doctrine more than you. I I just I do take these things very
seriously. I study them out. And because of the life that I'm living, I have the spirit with me. And so when I'm when I
need to respond, I do. Um, and I'm not always great at responding. Sometimes I'm too tired and I let I have an idea
of what I need to say and then I wait a week later and I'm like, well, now it's too late. It's not pop it's not heavy topic right now. So I should have So I'm
not perfect at it. But it is something that I'm really grateful that I get to even be a part of it because it blows my mind like that I'm able to do it. I
remember in my first trimester I am so sick, Greg. like I am throwing up like 10 times a day sick. And I remember I
saw this poster. I was so bothered by it. And in my head I was like I already knew I was going to take the month off from stuff because I was so sick. And I
don't know how I got ready that day. I don't know how I got makeup on and I made a video and it just came together so fast. And that video reached over half a million people on social media.
And it's like that was meant to happen.
And I was not by my means for sure. I am confident of that. Yeah. Why did you start?
What what when you were thinking about this, I mean, were you doing something else online? Did you already have an social media account, an Instagram account?
What what was it that spurred you on to say, I'm going to put myself out there?
Yeah. So, I my like I said, my background is in digital marketing. So, I had I was working on social media for
clients that I had for work and I was on TikTok because of these clients. They wanted to get on TikTok. So, I got the app for the first time in like 2021
and I'm trying to understand Tik Tok and I was blown away that just because I said that I live in Utah, how much anti- Mormon stuff I was seeing. It was it
blew me away and I wasn't seeing it on Instagram. It was just on TikTok at the time. And so one day I literally got my phone out and I just made a video where
I said, "Hi, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints and I love it." And if you are on this app and you feel like you're alone in that
experience, you're not alone. Like I love it. And this is why I choose to stay in the church. And that video just
did so well. It resonated with people so quickly that I felt like I should do that again. I should do that in different ways. And so I kept taking
videos of where I felt I was misrepresented and then I would just kind of respond. I wouldn't like usually stitch people, but I would just say,
"This is my opinion on this. This is why I believe this. This is why I do this." And it just kind of grew into something
um over time. And then eventually I got to the point where I wanted to do a podcast because I wanted to have deeper, longer
conversations, not just the short s that I have available to me on social media. Um, so I started a podcast
and the great greatest thing about the podcast is rarely do I have hate listeners. Do I have people who are going to listen to me talk for about why I love my faith, right? Mhm.
So, it came like a safe place for us to dive even deeper and talk about things that are really bothering us and are really criticized for and a sacred
place. And I mean, I do have hate listeners and I know of them, but it's still I'm that's the podcast became like
my real baby once that and now social media is just a means to get more people to find the podcast.
Podcast. Okay.
Do you you say that you have I mean you didn't use this term but this is a calling for you.
I mean that's so in our faith I feel like that's a heavy word. Okay.
Um a calling. Yeah. Cuz it's like in this church we don't we don't advertise ourselves or pitch
ourselves for callings. We don't sign up for them at an organizational level. But in our personal lives, we absolutely can say,
"Where do you want me and how do you want me to show up?" And that's a prayer that I I do offer.
And it's not like it's clearly laid out for me to know exactly what that's going
to look like. I You just heard me say that. I'm taking a break from the podcast for probably 4 months, four to five months. Like that's a long break.
If this was a calling, I couldn't take that kind of time off. But this is something that I feel I counsel with God about regularly is knowing the balance of this with all my other
responsibilities. Like my most important call is the call that I have as a mother and finding that balance is crucial to me. So a calling Yeah. I feel I feel
inspired but I don't feel the pressure of it being like my job. Mhm.
Do you think that in social media right now, podcasting, everything online,
do you like the direction it's going right now? What maybe should change? What are your thoughts?
H I love that more people are stepping into the space and I will be an advocate
for any member to step into the space the way they feel inspired to step in the space. Does that mean I agree with
every way every member shows up? No. Um,
I fear sometimes I almost especially recently I I took on the the name apologist two years ago and Jasmine and
I started around the same time. She reached out to me and she's like, I'm so glad you're using that name because I feel that that's a name that I want to be associated with.
And I was like, yay. like let's claim this name because critics act like it's a derogatory term but like we can claim
it for what it is and do it in a right in the right way. Mhm.
I will be honest that in the last probably year I am less I feel less good about being a part of
the apologetic space. I don't agree with ways that it's always done and I Do you think it's contentious?
Yeah, I think it can get too contentious um too degrading. I feel it's always I I feel like we can defend the church
without attacking um the other side, but I don't feel like we always need to be on defense. I think we can promote the church and promote
our experience, promote our life um and defend claims that we don't agree with without calling people out and
criticizing them like head on. But maybe I know that those people who do that, they reach people that I would never
would and I reach people that they would never. So maybe we're all needed.
Yeah, I kind of feel that way. That's how I feel. I I think, you know, I I'm not I don't do debates. I just I just I
decided very early on I wasn't going to do debates. I wasn't going to that just wasn't my thing. I'll be blunt and I'll
say what's on my mind, but um it's just not really my approach to do that. In fact, I don't even live very much in that apologetic space. I don't think
that I'm, you know, talking about those that are uh even critics of the church and, you know, that's not really what I do. But I do think it's effective. Yeah.
I mean, if I take it as a whole Mhm.
I I feel like we're getting a seat at a table where we never used to get before in in Christian
discussion. Um, I think people take things a little bit more seriously with us.
again talking about Christianity as a whole and I do think that that is going in the right direction. I don't always agree with the means.
Yeah, I definitely do not always agree with the means.
I'm okay with debates. I'm okay with debates.
I yeah, I just there's some people in this space that are influential and I don't
25 minuteswant to influence more creators to make derogatory content about XLDS, even anti- Mormon content.
Mhm. I just it doesn't resonate with me. You're you're not in the fight.
And it's funny because it's like they they'll they put my name in their mouth like the Girls Camp podcast has an entire episode dedicated to me.
Like I haven't talked about her like on my end and I feel like that's because I know my audience so well
that that wouldn't resonate with them either. They don't really care what they're saying over there. Mhm.
They want, like you said, they want to be able to articulate their faith in a way that can stand up against this criticism and scrutiny.
And so I choose to make content for them rather than make content for the critics of the church. Mhm.
And I think sometimes in the apologetic space, we're making content that is just to be controversial and just to attack what they're saying on the other side.
Yeah. Does that make sense? Team versus team kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. No, that does make sense.
Um, um, even in saying that though, I would never publicly criticize another LDS creator. I would never I follow all of them. I support them the ways that I
feel like I can. I I would never, if I saw a video, even that I didn't agree with, I would never comment and say, "I don't agree with this." I cuz I really
feel like I'm supposed to show up the way that I feel called to show up.
Everyone needs to Everyone needs to show up the way that they're they feel is needed in the space. And we can't be critical of each other. I hate the drama
within the space. Like any drama within the space is so contrary to what we believe.
Yeah. Yeah. And what what's what does it produce? What what is it? What will you actually get from it? No. Nothing. There's no fruit there. Yeah.
And it happens sometimes where people are like, I don't agree with the way that they said that or what they showed up how they said things. And it's going to happen. Of course, it's going to
happen. But it's we don't need to publicly be attacking or criticizing each other. We can just That's the worst thing. I mean, if you're attacking each other, uh, you're
weakening the entire No. Exactly. You know, did we forget what side we're on? Like, we're supposed to be coming together for the to get the other side.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you show a lot, show you a lot. You show some about your family, about what
you believe uh on your account, and your podcast.
What do you think of the messaging of our not not the not the Latterday Saint culture but of our culture more broadly?
What is the messaging today for young women about marriage and about motherhood?
What are the issues there and and how do you combat it?
Yeah, I think that the messaging to women is that family is on the back burner while you pursue your call as a as a careerdriven woman.
In some ways, it's careerdriven women.
In some other ways, I just feel like there's such a selfish mentality out there. Our culture tells us to focus on
ourselves. you do you and make sure that you are happy and pursue things and make sure you take away the and set
boundaries for yourself so that you are content and you are happy and you have inner peace and it's so contrary to what
Christ said or he says actually it's not you do you it's you do God like you I give I'm giving my will to the father
and when we do that um for some that will be getting married at a young age and having a family at a
young age. For some, they'll they'll be waiting and they'll be giving their life to the Lord in their career, in their education. Like, everyone's life is
going to look different. So, I'm not going to say like and I think that society, it's weird. Interesting cuz you know,
Greg, there is such a phenomenon on trades right now. And like our culture kind of loves the trades,
too. So, you're not going to have I'm not going to just say that they're telling women to not get married and have babies because I think in some ways like there is that culture out there
encouraging that and I think that's great. I just want if I'm going to share a message, it's going to be what is God telling you to do? How are you giving
your will to the father and following that path rather than what the influences of society are telling you?
because there's a lot of influences out there that are good but that aren't coming from well okay I don't want to
say that I just I don't know I don't know how I feel about that I
feel like I'm more of like a feminist in some ways I think that would surprise you and
what what do you mean by that I that women should have equal rights and opportunities and if a woman feels 's called to work.
You know that social media post that went viral that the church did about that woman who felt she needed to be a pediatric surgeon of some kind.
Great. I totally believe that God could have called that woman to do that. And people would say that's contrary to like God's plan and the family proclamation and what we're supposed to be teaching.
But I don't think it is. Like I think that woman is giving her life to God.
and he could absolutely be calling her to do that among her call to have children. Mhm.
Does that make sense? And so I think I'm a pretty fe I think I'm feminist within the Mormon culture.
You're feminist within the m Mormon culture. What So would you So let's back up just a little bit here. So would you
say feminism is exactly that? Equal rights. Is that what it is? Equal opportunity. Yeah. And rights. Yeah, of course.
Okay. Um, I would I would separate it personally.
I would separate the difference, but like like a post like that or the BYU Idaho video that was put out and I would separate it between I want
everyone to have agency. I want everyone to have an opportunity. You know, my wife works full-time. My, you know, she
didn't for almost the whole time we were raising kids, but uh she's very successful. I've got two daughters. one
owns a business, one is uh in STEM and and does very very well and promoted and
etc. And and so I want everyone to have an opportunity and a choice and they can then ask God, well, what should I be doing if I've got these choices?
Exactly.
The difference for me is is there an ideal overall and what is the advocacy? M
that that's where I I look at okay because I can crunch numbers and I can see our birth rate our fertility rate within the church even
and certainly outside of the church is dropping through the floor right right right now that's a real problem and I think that that is something that
is if I am looking at the family proclamation I see the last couple of paragraphs there talking about the calamities and different things that's
pretty simple to put one and one together and Hey, there are going to be economic trials. There are going to be possibly wars. There could be resource
issues. There could be a lot of things happening when the f family dissolves totally like that. And so I'm to me it's like I
want you to be who you want to be. I want you to have the choice. But am what am I advocating for?
Right? What do I think? Is there an ideal? Is there an ideal that maybe is taught but there's still an acceptance
to how you choose? Do I have to have those? Do those two have to match?
I think the ideal though in different cultures around the world looks different.
And so I think as a church we can't say that the ideal is always this. And I think we we see that shift. We we see
that change even if you go to the church's topics essay topics on this very thing like it will talk it talks about circumstances not as a only if you
can't have children or only if you can't provide does the woman need to step in like it encourages you to counsel as a
couple to know what that looks like for your family. Mhm.
That's it. That's the end. Counsel as a couple.
Counseling as a couple in my ceiling relationship requires my heavenly father as well, right? It requires God. And I
think that we need to just accept and advocate that couples can do that and it
can look different than what we would say the ideal tradition of the husband provides, the mom is staying at home
with the kids and and circumstances like that. We don't see that happening in our culture very much anymore.
And I don't think that's well in some ways. I just did a really
great episode with um Jenna Ericson from BYU and she talked about like some real
statistics and like real ways that it can impact children when the mom isn't in the home and like what we need to actually be worried about and what we
can also let go from our culture. And so I'm not going to say like, yeah, go go go be the career-driven woman and have
like a full-time job and be outside of the home because like there are attachment things that your child will need you for and you need to be in the
home in those very early stages of that child's life and I will I would encourage that. I would tell women that.
But what that looks like for me doesn't have to look like that for someone else.
Like even when my children have been young, I've I've always done the podcast part-time and that takes me away from my children in small amounts of times,
right? And I this is something that my husband and I take really seriously and we counsel with Heavenly Father on okay, what does this look like and how what is
the best case scenario? How are we supposed to do it all? And it's always falling into place the way it was supposed to. And that doesn't look like
me being home with them every day all day.
Mhm. Um, and I think because of my experience, because of how surprised I was when my son was like 6 months old,
my first I was surprised that I had the desire to work and I took it to God like with fear of being like, is this bad?
Like, am I just influenced by the world and like feeling like I need to go back to work? And the spirit immediately was
like, "No, like I know you and I know your desires and it is okay that you want to work." And I thought, "Okay, my
ideal is to work part-time so that I can be with him majority of the time." And my that job fell into my lap.
Literally 2 days after I said that prayer, like is this weird? Is this wrong? Am I wrong for feeling this? I had a job offer that I didn't even apply
for. And it felt so meant to be. And the the the crazy part of that story is after I took that job about 8 months
later, my husband lost his source of income.
And how grateful I was that I was able to provide for our family for that period of time. Mhm.
With my little income that was enough to like help us through that season. And so to say that the ideal looks a certain
way, well, my ideal God knew that that was coming. God knew that I would need to have my income and that I would need to be using my skills this way to even
be where I'm at right now. Like, it took my digital marketing background, took my educational background, it took um the
time that I spent at my marketing agency to get where I am today to do what I do effectively on social media. So, it's so
clear to me that God is writing my story. And it's very different than this just like ideal or like Mormon timeline
that I think we think is the one sizefits-all, but we know it's not the one sizefits-all. It's going to be so different in everyone's life. And I'm so
confident saying that because of how different it's looked in my life while I have partnered with God. Mhm.
What is the when you're putting messages out? Mhm.
You seem to be putting out a message of how being a mother and a wife is a very positive thing for you.
Yes. Right. I want that to be clear.
Okay. Why Why do you want to Why do you do you feel a need to do that? Yeah.
Okay. So based on based on your context and what you're saying, why why put that front and center?
Because it is our culture does make it seem like that's not a a reality that
that's not possible. You can't love being a mom. You can't actually love your relationship with your spouse. Like these are hard things that everyone's
just like enduring. It feels like that when you get online and I like I said earlier like the biggest fruit of the
gospel in my life, the most delicious fruit in my life is my family. And I just want people to know that
I do find so much meaning and purpose and nothing is more important than what's happening within my home. Yeah.
And I I I just I I know that my audience is a lot of younger women in their early
20s, in their teens. And if if they trust me to follow me, then I just want to make sure that they know that that's something that's really important to me.
Like as any big sister Mhm.
I would say get make sure your priorities are straight. I'm going to advocate for you to go to get a job if you want to get a job and advocate for you to get that education as our
prophets would. But I'm also going to make sure you know that this is the best thing.
So it is a countercultural Yeah.
approach that you're there there's a concern I'm I'm putting
words in your mouth here, but there's a concern that people might be influenced by other philosophies and other teachings, other
lifestyles, and and you want your voice at least to be out there as saying, "No, this is good." The entire premise of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is that these women are breaking the patriarchy.
That they are finally having the opportunity to work. That they are getting outside of the home. That they're sticking it to their husbands because now is their time to shine.
What the crap? I've never felt that as a Mormon wife. Mhm. That like my husband's holding me back.
The patriarch is holding me back because I chose to have kids young. I'm I'm stressed. I'm overwhelmed. I need to get out there to be successful. Like we got
to move to LA for this to grow. Like that's the whole premise of the show. And I see that and I'm like, what? You're like, you're missing the mark.
You're you're so influenced by what the world is telling you is successful, that the what the world is telling you is influential that you're literally
40 minutesforgetting that the most successful influential thing you will do is within your home. the the richest people are
the people that have successful marriages and happy children in my opinion. Like and that's I feel like the gospel helps us orient that way.
You said early on you thought that one of the messages that counters that. I I I don't know if you were whittling it all the way down to
that, but it seemed like your your primary response was careerism, right? Is that the number one? I mean,
you're saying you want everyone to work that wants to work or feels the call to work, but you're also saying that there is a message of careerism that is
counter sometimes to maybe maybe it's the way we set the value of these things. Am I setting the value of this above family?
Well, I feel like as covenant keepers, we have to be able to discern truth when we and error when we hear truth and
error. I feel like there are times where career is per is given the idea of careerism and like the idea that women
have to be outside of the home in order to fully develop and use the talents God has given them to the max capacity.
False. That is not a true statement. And that's what society will tell you. Now, do I believe that there could be things
that God needs to teach you through your careers or people that you will touch through your careers? Absolutely.
But if you're doing it for development and fulfillment, let's take a step back and ask God, why am I not feeling development and
fulfillment within my home? Like there I I get where I sound like I'm like contradicting myself. But I do feel
really strongly like we can discern truth. Uh that is one of the gifts of the spirit. And if the message is coming
at you to get into the workforce as a woman because you need more fulfillment, you need more purpose, you need to develop
and grow and actually tap into all the gifts God has given you or whatever it might be, all of your skills, your talents, that's false. You don't go into
a career for those things. You can absolutely develop those things in any aspect of your life within your home.
But while you're partnering with God, if he tells you that he needs you to do certain things, well, then you're going to have to just run through the spirit
to step up and to lean into that truth as well.
Uh you went on a mission, right? Did you? Okay. Um, what has that meant to you in your life as far as an anchor
for what you do now, the messaging you offer now for your priority of family, etc.
What what where does that fit in all that?
The big thing I took away from my mission was like a personal relationship with my savior. for the first time in my life. I was a pretty good kid growing
up, so I didn't feel like I utilized the atonement much growing up in preparation um for my mission. Then I got out there
on my mission. And it was so hard. And I learned for the first time that my savior not only redeemed me from sins,
but he also strengthens me in pains and my sorrows and he enables me. And I
really had a personal relationship with him for the first time. And one of the big things that I learned on my mission was how to utilize the sacrament to
enable me every week to renew those covenants, what that actually looked like and how real that was. And I feel
like now as a mother, I'm so grateful that I have that foundation of my relationship with Jesus Christ and
knowing who he is and what it means for him to be my savior, what I need him to save me from, which is is sin every
single day. and also enables me as a mother when I go take the sacrament on Sunday like as a missionary I remember I
would sit there and just be like how am I going to do it how am I on Sundays as a missionary are like your craziest days you have to be on the whole day and
you're just I just feel like I was running around on Sundays and I sit there in soccer meeting and be like I am so exhausted like my the schedule is
rigorous I am on all the time like mentally physically emotionally spiritually exhausted did and I would partake of the sacrament and I would
feel renewed. I would feel new and that I absolutely could take it on. Now, you
better believe at this stage in my life as a mom to two who and pregnant with my third, I I need that more than ever.
And so, I know that might not have been the answer that you were expecting, but like that is what my mission taught me.
Okay. your relationship there where
with social media right now looking at an arc of growth, development, direction,
where are we now as far as a faithful Latter-day Saint presence and where do
you think it should go? Where will it go?
I think we're still small comparatively.
Um, but as Sher D, she just spoke at women's conference and she said like I would bet
that we begged to come to this time to be a part of this dispensation. And I was like because of the gospel like in
my head that's what I was thinking where she was going to go and she was like because of how easy it is to share your voice. and she was talking about social
media, and how easy it is to get your message out there and to share your testimony,
your witness as she called it. And I think more and more women, I mean,
it's been prophesied that more and more women will uh step up, speak out, and they will do it on social media. So, I
think I think we're small. I'm glad that I started when I did. Like I'm glad. I feel like I'm kind of like we're
pioneering this uh this process and I hope more and more women will feel inspired and called to do so. And I think we will. We need we need to. We need more women stepping into the space.
But it's so cool how we're doing it not just from that churchy side that I talked about, but also the lifestyle side. I don't I I
would love I haven't talked to a lot of those influencers, but I would love to know if they feel this is a call in the way that they perform and what they do as well. And I I wouldn't be surprised
if it is um because and I hope they know that their influence is is even more significant in ways than this apologetic side that we're talking about.
Where do you think it's going to go? I mean, apart from more and more women perhaps and
well, where where do we go from from here? Where do we go forward on this? Do you have a an idea of what this might look like in 5 years or 10 years? Is it
is it just a volume issue of more and more women for example online or is it
is it is there a certain direction we're going to go that changes?
We're in such a big Mormon moment right now and part of me is like there's no way the bubble's not going to pop soon.
But also what if it doesn't? What does that mean?
So right now the Mormon moment because of the Secret Lives of Mormon wivesh not just the Secret Lives. There are so many shows right now
that will sprinkle in some um some something about our faith, some affiliation.
Yeah. Some affiliation whether wrong or right. And because of that, people are searching Mormonism crazy. People are
interested in our faith. They are so we are being looked at more than we ever have. And I think that that will
encourage more people to step into the space. We will see more people. But part of me is like, is this going to last forever? Is Hollywood going to be obsessed with Mormons until Christ
comes? Maybe. Maybe. But I also think the Mormon moment, it's been going on for 2 years now. I I feel like it's
going to pop. But now we have a new show, another Secret Lives of Mormon Wives that's supposed to be bigger than the last one. So maybe it's not going
away. Maybe this is the new show that will keep our names in people's mouths and they will be seeking to understand
who we are. And I think because of that, more members are going to step up and it's just going to grow. I think that's I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know. Yeah, I guess.
So, based on Sher D's talk and and the Mormon moment is in terms of Mormonism, is any news good news?
I mean, I'm a PR background, but I think so.
My sister is serving her mission in Fr Paris, France. She's been there for over a year. When she got that call, I thought, "That's really cool, but you're
not going to teach very many people." She She averages 7 to 10 investigators at church on Sunday every week. Wow.
They are baptizing like crazy in her mission.
They have more sisters right now than elders.
The women are getting out there because the age change and then the work is booming in Paris, France. And I would not have guessed
that. And I just think that people are hungry for the gospel. They're hungry for a relationship with God in this
world that we live in. And if we keep showing up, not just as missionaries, cuz I think about how many people I
taught on my mission and talk to, I I literally can reach the whole 18 months of people that I talk to every single
day. I reach that many people in one day on social media with a video. Mhm.
And so as more members realize that that this curiosity, this desire that is growing in people in preparation for
Christ coming, we can actually fill that need just by making a video online and introducing our church and our beliefs.
And I think that we'll see that that grow. And I think that's why missionary work is booming right now is because of social media. Yeah. And the Mormon moment.
Well, that's funny because I asked my sister, I'm like, how many of people know about the Secret Lives of Mormon wives? like is that part of your pitch when you're talking to people? She's
like, "No, no one knows." Yeah.
So, it's not as popular in Europe as I thought it would be. Mhm.
Uh but in America, it's probably I don't know.
I remember when when uh the Book of Mormon musical came out and I had an aunt who was furious about
the whole thing. And the same same kind of thing you were my response was the same to her as you were saying. I thought I thought, you know what? This is going to be good.
Yeah. It doesn't matter what they're saying. Doesn't matter what's going on.
It's going to be top and center in mind for a number of different people. And the response from the church was great.
You've seen the musical. Now, read the book. Exactly.
You know, it's uh religion in and of itself is not really going to get up into the higher headlines of of the media just on its
own. And so, anything that launches it up there totally gets people like curious. I have a friend that uh interestingly he was a
he's a gay man in uh New Zealand and this is very odd story but he he uh he
was away from Christianity for decades and then he started looking into Christianity and because he really
missed a relationship with God. And so he is watching Mormon stories of all things
one day and he was seeing how a gay Latter-day Saint was talking about his family and how his family still loved
him and supported him and and he this guy was just shocked like how is that possible? So he starts getting interested in learning about Mormonism.
Yeah. From from Mormon stories of all things.
And it's and and he calls the sister missionaries over and they come over and teach him and he gets baptized a few months later and wow and uh so you don't know how things are
going to happen but it's but when things are brought up when the topic is brought up I think you need to leverage it as much as possible. Mhm.
And any good any news pretty much I'm going to say anything but for the most part any news is usually going to be good news in terms of
in terms of curiosity from people about the church.
Yeah. And I tell people too like we have the zero lives of Mormon wives that is portraying Mormon women as you know
trying to be free from the patriarchy and super sexy whatever. And then we have Hannah Neilman of Ballerina Farms
who has millions and millions of followers probably just as much of an impact as the show is. She shares she's
Mormon. She's a trad wife living on a farm having nine kids milking her own cows. I think most people are smart
enough to see these polar opposite Mormon depictions of women and know we're somewhere we're somewhere in the middle. Yeah.
And so I don't know. I don't really stress about it.
What uh what is a message that you would want to
give to a teenage girl about the church and about her identity and about what the world teaches?
So many thoughts going through my mind.
Um to a teenage girl, I would just want to make it and I feel like this is a a
big uh purpose behind my whole podcast as I want people to clearly understand who Heavenly Father is to them and who
Jesus Christ is to them. And I sometimes worry that our culture gets that wrong.
And sometimes because of our experiences with our parents growing up, we have a misunderstanding of who Heavenly Father is. Sometimes
because of church leaders, we have a misunderstanding of who Jesus Christ is and what that relationship looks like.
And so I try to pull back culture and get down to who is Heavenly Father, who
is Jesus Christ, what does that mean for you in your life? And if I can if I would share any message, it would just
be of that divine origin that you are a literal daughter of God. I'm like what that means? We say that all the time
from my children that are two and 5 years old could sing I'm a child of God to me, right? They know we're taught from the very beginning like that's your identity, but like what does that mean?
What does that mean for your potential, your for your growth, for this season of life that you're in? and how has he created a plan for you to advocate for
you to to bless you to strengthen you through this life? You know, it's pretty basic stuff, but it's something that I
feel like culturally we can even get wrong with the simple stuff. Where do you see your podcast going?
That's a great question. Um, I don't know. Part of me like fears that I'm going to have this baby and I'm not
going to want to go back, but like there's no way. Like I love it so much. I love being able to
help women and men tackle hard topics and pull back the culture to understand the doctrine. Like I love doing that.
It's been it's been so meaningful for me, not just in that way, but I have learned so much. I have grown in so much empathy and better understanding so many
different Mormon experiences that I didn't have. And I'm just I'm grateful for it. And so I decided to take the
summer off to have this baby and I plan on coming back.
Um, but it also was a lot of work. So I don't know. Yeah. You need to find your own balance. Yeah.
Appreciate your time, Lauren. You're an example and an inspiration. Thank you.
Tell you that. So really appreciate what you're doing and I I hope you are able to continue to some degree in what you're doing because I think you're influencing somewhere. I'll be out there in some way. I'm sure. Thank you.