Why Is Former Presiding Bishop Speaking At Lifestyle Affirming Conference?

A look inside Gather’s messaging, its youth program, and its end goal: same-sex temple sealing “Church Will Catch Up” Message The conference, the youth program, and the message behind both Love Without Truth Isn’t Charity "Jesus loves you” is not “nothing you do matters” Standing for Truth With Love- A Response to Gather

 Raw Transcript:

Hey there, kings, queens, everyone in between. Uh just a uh friendly reminder that gather for youth is happening.
A former presiding bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is speaking at an identity affirming,
lifestyle affirming LGBTQ organization and conference called Gather where they put identity and lifestyle above
covenant keeping. And the holy grail is same-sex ceiling in the temple. They also have a youth program. This is the
program director, the youth program director as well. I've got a lot of details on this organization and what they represent and the messaging that
they offer. This episode is brought to you by Go and Do Travel and the three continents tour. We are going to be
Chapter 2: Go and Do travel promotion
traveling next year March 16th to 17th, 2027 and March 30th to April 10th, 2027.
This is a fantastic trip where we start in Turkey. We move to the aisle, the Greek isles, Potmos where John received
1 minutethe the book of revelation vision. We go to the actual cave that is considered to be where John was when he received the revelation. We go to Santorini and cree
and roads and then we'll move down to Egypt where we see the pyramids. We have a camel ride. If you take the extension, which you've got to do, you'll see the
temples of Egypt with our temple engraved all over the walls. This is one of my favorite trips. To find out more, go to quickdia.com.
That's cwicdia.com.
Go to the top to trips and events and scroll down to three continents. I would love to see you there. Here we go.
Chapter 3: Critique of Gather ideology
All right. So, I realize that this is a controversial subject. It's something that I was going to cover last year. I decided not to do it, but their conference is coming up again. They've
got a former presiding uh bishop from the church that will be speaking on a panel there and I want to talk about
that a little bit. And then I of course we need to do the necessary house cleaning here when we're talking about LGBTQ issues. I want you to know where I
stand and I want you to know u how we are really need to parse this out because it's a very sensitive subject,
but it also needs to be addressed. We can't put our heads in the sand and just say, "Okay, empathy and love and that's all that exists." You can't do that,
right? You've got to tether things to truth. You've got to tether things to covenant. And and this organization
seems to do a very poor job of that. Uh and I'm going to go over details on that and show you the kind of messaging that is brought out from this organization.
Here you can see this is uh Bishop David Burton who is going to be speaking at the panel. Now, he's got a child and a
grandchild that are LGBTQ, right? I get it. I understand that that he is going to support. He's showing how he loves
his family. Uh look at this big beautiful family he has here and he's going to support everyone and and I get it. You want to support those
individuals. However, I don't know that he knows what this organization is about. There are other organizations
that preach the gospel that preach keeping covenants and being temple worthy, you know, like Northstar and
that say, "Okay, here's the way. Here is the direction that we need to go. This is what the church says. This is what the prophets and apostles have said.
This is what the scriptures say. And and here is a way to do this while we love and support our LGBTQ family members,
friends, neighbors, church members, ward members, etc., which is the right approach. This is not that way. This is
complete untethered empathy. It is, hey, we love you how you are. Come as you are and don't change. In fact, express
everything. Be everything you want to be and just be your authentic self. Jesus loves you regardless. Okay? Jesus loves
you regardless. And you know what? The church is just behind the times. This is the real focus when when you look at
these types of organizations. The church is behind the times. We see other individuals and families that have moved beyond and adapted to our time and our
understanding of things in the LGBTQ community. The church just hasn't been able to get there yet, but they will.
And that is the messaging that is brought about. And I think this is what is really crucial to understand because there is a mist. Yes, it's a mist of
darkness, but there is a mist that is covering a lot of especially what you see in politics in in in Utah,
especially up in Salt Lake and a little bit in Utah County, but up especially up in Salt Lake about these types of issues
and and so you get things like it's just you need to love and support. Yes. But there are caveats to all of these
things, right? There are caveats to these things. We want to help. A real true charity is bound to righteousness.
It's bound to righteousness.
And if you do not have that righteousness involved with it, then it is not the love of God. It is not charity.
So, how do you love and support and put your arm around our LGBTQ brothers and sisters
and at the same time affirm the covenants, affirm the way, affirm the
scriptures and the prophets and the apostles because that's what needs to be done. You've got to bring both sides together to be able to do this.
And there are organizations that completely untether this type of compassion or what I call untethered
empathy with without being grounded in gospel principles and doctrine and quite
frankly the order of God. And so things like gender is eternal and uh you know marriage needs to be between a man and a
woman, those things just kind of go out the door because those are hurtful to certain individuals apparently. And so and offensive so we're not going to
bring that up and that's the kind of thing you're going to get here. I want to go over some details on these things.
Chapter 4: Gather youth program analysis
Oh, first of all, I want to show you also they've got a youth program. And this here is a post that they have on their Instagram account. I'm just going to play this and let you listen to it.
And then uh I want to read a little bit on the caption here.
Hey there everybody. Hey there kings, queens, everyone in between. Uh just a uh friendly reminder that Gather for
Youth is happening uh this November the 13th and 14th. Okay. So, Gather for Youth is GFY, not EFY. Right.
Same time as a Gather conference. Uh, and thanks to generous donations, uh, pricing has been reduced for our youth.
7 minutesUm, it's $60 for a single day ticket and $95 for the weekend. Um, and we're going to do so much fun stuff. Uh, we're going to do lots of crafting. Uh, lots of fun
group activities like karaoke. Uh, with lots of dress up opportunities if that's your thing. For some of us, it is. Um, also meals, lunches provided.
Okay. So, he goes over a few more of the logistics, but I want to go over the the captions here that are on this post so
that you can read this. Uh, we want youth who want to participate, every youth who wants to participate to join
us for gather gathers conference, join us for gather conferences, gather for youth, GFY, during gather conference
2026. And so this is coming up in November. So they have their regular adult conference and now they've got a a youth conference as well. And this is
not, you know, they had about 50 uh youth, I believe, last year. They've got another uh breakoff group that had another 40 or 50 or so in their youth as
well. But this this is the this is the leadership for their youth program. Uh what what message does that send, right?
And this this tells you immediately the type of organization that this is. All right? and and the support that they are
giving uh for expression and being your authentic self and look this this gentleman here I mean he's I there there
is he is a child of God anybody else who follows this type of lifestyle or expression uh they're children of God and they
deserve our love and and they deserve our support but we they don't deserve us bending the truth they don't deserve us
not looking out for the ultimate good for each individual.
That isn't right. That's not charity, right? That that's not true love in that instance, right? I mean, people want to express themselves in a certain way.
That's not going to change the way that I support and love somebody.
Okay? That that's that's not going to make any difference. And it shouldn't for you, right? And you want to be inviting and and you want to be let them know that
they're cared about. And in a lot of cases, this this might be the most important thing you can do.
But affirming a certain lifestyle, affirming certain sins is not the love of God.
Jesus sat with sinners. You'll hear that a lot. Well, Jesus sat with sinners. No, Jesus sat with sinners and preached the gospel.
He didn't bend truth. Can you imagine? He didn't bend truth.
So, uh, you know, those that bend gender, that's a completely different thing. Jesus is not going to bend the truth.
Let me go on here a little bit more on this caption. It says, uh, me down here a little bit more. Here we go. In the second paragraph, and in
addition to two full days of youth programming, I want you to think about that word a little different.
10 minutesyouth programming. What kind of programming are are are they giving you here? And activities and the open social. One of the cool things you might
not know about Gather for Youth is that they get a lot of perks. They talk about swag bags and t-shirts and and a whole bunch of other things. So I I just, you
know, if you're a parent or a grandparent, there are different organizations out
there that you can look at that say, "Hey, this is faith affirming, church affirming,
covenant affirming, and the love and support are given to an individual at the same time." Again, love is not everything goes.
That's not what love is.
Love is I love you no matter what. Even if you're letting everything go.
I'm here for you, right? I want you to know that you're valuable to me. I want you to know that I love you. That is key. And of course,
we always want to be able to do that. We always need to do that.
But you stick to truth, right? What was Elder Gilbert's talk on?
It was it was standing for truth, stay telling the truth, standing for truth with love.
That is not what this organization does from what I can tell and from what has been told to me. That is that is just not that's not what they they they
cover. I want to go over a few specifics here on the kind of rhetoric that is and messaging that that gets put out by this kind of thing. And it's not just them.
Chapter 5: Rhetoric and normalization
It is it is out there online everywhere. Your children read this kind of stuff.
And it's the same type of attitude within the church, right? It's very specific in the church where you have a Charlie Bird with his husband who is now
uh looking to adopt a child to bring in a child uh
robbing to me robbing the child of a mother. Robbing the child of a mother.
12 minutesBut it's all supported. You see all the likes, thumbs up and and profuse uh support and admiration for them for what they're doing.
not not godly. I'm sorry. That's not charity. That is not what that is. Uh they they've sing songs sometimes.
Here's here's a a song for gather gather that says if I'm the one that told the lies that made you doubt, I apologize. I
throw stones and say that Jesus would do the same. This is they're talking about the world around them. Just those types of things, right? The message of the
song is that the world has been telling lies and that the world needs to apologize to those that are in this room in this conference.
Right? Telling lies. Now, what kind of lies? Well, one man was introduced here, a man that
is married to a woman, and they use certain language. For example, they say, "Okay, here's Kurt." That's one of the the gentlemen that was that was
announced. This is Kurt and his marriage partner. So they don't say his wife.
They use the term marriage partner. And that's just a little, you know, words matter. And they understand this. You
need to understand that. And it's just a an erosion of using the term marriage and the definition of marriage. Right?
Let's water it down a little bit. Going back into music and dancing, this was really interesting. They had a
uh talking about dancing. They say that you know this is this is essentially quotes from things that were said. Says
as Mormons like most Mormons of his time, Brigham Young grew up with the notion that fiddling and dancing constituted a step in the direction of
Davy Jones. That was the quote at the time. Brigham conceded later in life that the strictness of his elders mandate against these evils simply made
him want to dance and hear the fiddles all the more. Thus in the last days of Nauvoo there was dancing basically.
Right? So and then they go through this step process because they're using this as a metaphor for LGBTQ and and the holy
grail which is sameex marriage ceiling in the temple.
Right? So they go through this following pattern to show you where things are going. This is the messaging. One, dancing was condemned originally.
Second, it was disputed. Third, it was permitted. Fourth, it was encouraged.
And then finally, and yes, they even use this term.
There were divine rituals for dancing.
And so, you know, what you have here is look at the path that samesex marriage is going through. And eventually, guys,
the church is going to get there. And we'll we'll finally get this. You in the audience are probably way ahead of the
church. You're already there. Look at Charlie Bird. Look at others. The church will get there. They just haven't done it yet.
And that is the messaging instead of look, stay to your covenants.
Go to the temple. Stay to your covenants. Follow the truth of the scriptures.
Follow the truth from the prophets and the apostles.
It is no, everything will change. Look at the blacks in the priesthood. Look at polygamy. These are all policy changes,
by the way. Essentially, the doctrines didn't change. But, you know, hey, this one it will the doctrine will change and
the church will change and we'll eventually have same-sex ceiling in the temple. That is the messaging.
And and I I think people need to understand what that is first of all.
And maybe you agree with it, but I think you first need to be aware that that is the primary messaging. There is not a gospel- centered message within this
umbrella of of ideology of of approach to LGBTQ issues within the church.
It is it is not stick to your covenants.
It is not follow Jesus in the sense that do what is right.
It it is Jesus loves you no matter what you do. That's that's the message in a vacuum instead of oh yeah,
there are commandments. There are certain ways to live and it's not sinning. Don't worry about sinning.
The things will change eventually. That's that's the message.
Chapter 6: Transgender testimonies
So here's another one. You've got Ben and Jessica. Uh, one is self-identified
as a transmasculine non-binary and Jessica is a trans woman. So, this is a man who identifies and has
completely fully transitioned to what they would say is a woman, right? Of course, chromosomes haven't changed.
This is gender doesn't change, but you can change your appearance. You can change the way you present yourself. You can change the way you talk about yourself. You can change your clothing.
You can have surgery.
Um, it doesn't change if you're a man or a woman. So, here's, you know, Ben speaking on this.
I'm a spork, not a fork or a spoon. So, in other words, get rid of the binary. I was on the playground wanting to be
Peter Pan and save my childhood crush, but I didn't want to be a man either.
There's a disconnect between my body and not really wanting to be a social constructed man. Okay, I don't doubt that. I'm not negating the feelings that this person has.
I that might be the way you feel. Okay, I don't want to be what others wanted me to be. It's not that others want you to
be something. It's you have spec you were born as a specific gender. You were born as a specific sex, a man or a woman.
Uh Jessica is here and she says, "Is there something that is not sinreated and that's what's going on with me?"
Right? There's something that is not sinreated. Let me repeat that. There's something that is not sinreated and that's what's going on with me. Okay,
this is an RM. It's a man and and this man is a returned missionary who has fully transitioned wearing a sleeveless
dress. And not everyone has to go as far as I have. I have medically and socially changed. There isn't one way to be
trans. There isn't one way to be non-binary. Many of us have had an interesting religious journey. I don't doubt that. Again, that is not
I'm not I'm not invalidating the way that you feel or or not I'm not invalidating the way that or or what you say you feel.
Okay. I I don't agree that you are now a woman.
That that is false. It's false.
Uh Jessica here says, "If you are yourself, you're going to hell." Right? This is the thought. If I'm going to be just myself, then I must be going to hell. If
you aren't yourself, you can go to heaven and maybe kind of be yourself.
So, this person has obviously decided to be what they call themselves.
Why I did transition. When I did transition, that's when I really felt the spirit in my life. Right? So, this is the messaging. When I transitioned is
when I started to really feel the spirit in my life. Ever more than when I was on my mission. Even more than when I was on my mission. and I'm the closest to my heavenly father right now.
I had a problem with this, but then I felt heavenly father's love and Jesus's love for me.
Jessica says, "I was praying constantly. I didn't think this was the way to go.
Church stuff says not to do this and not once has he, meaning God, said that I shouldn't go this way. I better
understand the joy of being a child of God. There's a love that embraces you." So again, this is all affirmation.
And yes, there is a love that embraces you. There's a love that says you are a child of God. You are a child of God.
But you can't take one side of the coin alone. Jesus loves me. That's it. It doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter the way I live. It doesn't matter
if I have a sinful life or a righteous life or decide good from evil or anything else. Jesus loves me and that's
all there is. And that's not the gospel at all.
Finally, Jessica says, "God doesn't care about my gender and what I've done or where I'm going." Really, and I think
that's just great. Ben then says, "You can pray about these things and find your answers. Get your own personal
revelation on this essentially." And that's what a lot of people will grab on to and claim. Well, I've got I've had my own personal revelation.
He says, "Last year I was at Gather and found the name Ben. I found the name Ben. I tried it on at the conference and
loved it. So, I decided to keep it and move forward with moving toward being transmasculine.
I prayed about it and felt like I was right with God. And so, I changed my name and my pronouns.
All right. So, again, I mean, you can see how slippery this gets and and and the way the these that doctrine gets twisted here through feelings and emotions.
and and being your authentic quotation marks here, being your authentic self.
Ben then says, "I'm moving forward with top surgery." They had a prayer by a pastor who said, this is a quotation,
"Father of creation, as we become more and more who you envision us to be," in other words, as we express ourselves
more and more uh as non-binary, we give thanks for this conference, for all those who have labored in love to
make this space holy, a place where love can flourish. There it is again. Love can flourish, where all can hear and believe they are beloved and fully embraced by you and this chosen family.
Remind us, he said, speaking to God, remind us, oh God, there is nothing sinful or broken about being que queer
about our bodies, our joy, our longings, or our relationships.
So again, parse that out. I I don't think that there is anything sinful about someone who experiences samesex attraction.
You can't say that to somebody if they're born with that. And yes, people are born with that. Not everybody, but people are bo not everyone who has that
has been born with that maybe, but some are. I have seen this from people that are born till they become full adults.
It's very obvious early on.
He finishes saying, "Make this gathering of limbs of your kingdom where love is abundant." This is all affirmation.
Justice is loud and no one is left behind. No, we don't leave anyone behind. But think about that terminology.
Chapter 7: Salvation and identity
And this is this is where we're really battling uh ideas here in in our culture and within the church. No one is going to be left behind.
Well, what does that mean? Well, that means one thing or another. One at the beginning of some of a journey or one at
the end of the journey. People that want to make everything okay and no sin want it at the end of the journey. Everybody
receives the same thing. Remember this plan in the war in heaven.
Everybody is saved at the same level at the end. Right? Whereas the equality
of God, as President Oaks has said previously, the equality of God is not the equality of outcome. It is the equality of opportunity.
In other words, what you've inserted here is agency.
So, no one being left behind means that in this life or the next, everyone will have the opportunity
to become who they want to become with a full knowledge and full understanding of the gospel, which probably none of us even have right now.
And you'll be able to choose that. And you'll be able to choose what you want.
You may not want a full glory because it's it's too hard. It there's too much responsibility.
There's pain and it might not be what someone wants
and so you choose something else. But we will all choose what we want.
So, no one is left behind means that everybody has an opportunity because of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
It does not mean that everybody has uh uh the same future, right? That that just isn't true. That
doesn't makes it makes zero sense. And it's not just.
If God is just, then not everyone will have the same future because people choose different things.
They choose different things. They choose different ways to live. They choose different goals and objectives.
And so that that's I think that's a really important concept to understand especially when we're talking about this
type of affirmation and charity and love for others. Carolyn Pearson uh was there. She passed away this last year.
Caroline Pearson has done some amazing things. Uh very creative. She's been through a lot, made a lot of sacrifice.
she was there's a beautiful story about her and her gay husband who died of AIDS
and uh how she stood by his side and you know there's a lot of real goodness right there. There's a lot of things I
don't agree with with with with uh Carolyn Pearson, but she was introduced as a prophetist at
Gather last year and she says something similar to that idea of moving forward toward this this holy grail, right? She
says, she said, "Our church is on a pioneer journey. We take steps forward and backward and forward. The church is
a pioneer too. it hasn't yet arrived at this is the place. Well, of course, that can be interpreted in so many different
ways, right? And and you're speaking to an LGBTQ audience. In other words, we're going to eventually get the changes that
27 minuteswe're looking for. She then gave a blessing to everybody in the crowd.
You've got another speaker who says, "Living authentically isn't easy, but it's the only way to live. Be your authentic self.
They see it's all about you. It's all about you. You're a good person. They said it doesn't matter if you are
single, celibate, in a same-sex relationship. It doesn't matter.
This is the messaging. Or another speaker, I can't be okay with me and deny who I am to others. Another, God
knows my name and my pronouns. And I always ask God, tell me that top surgery is not okay. Tell me since I know it's
not okay. But he never did and he said it was okay.
Another I didn't step away from the church. The church stepped away from me.
And lastly, another who said that queer theology, feminism theology, that this
was the seminary for me. So these are just some examples that you get from this organization and their conference
and what they hold and and again I think that last year they had an ameritus a 70s ameritus who gave a
prayer. I don't know that these individuals know exactly what this organization is teaching. I think that there is this mindset that has captured
Chapter 8: Concluding thoughts on truth
so many Latter-day Saints which is all that matters is love.
All that matters is Jesus. Oh, but Jesus is just love. He's not a judge. He doesn't care what you are or who you are
or how you act or what decisions you make. None of that matters. So, we are we are in a place where we take the idea
of love, which is not a true love when it's untethered from righteousness,
and and then we we take away any type of consequence. We don't want the consequences.
And if I can go through life doing whatever I want and just saying Jesus told me to do this or or God the Father told me to do this in my prayers and I
can do whatever I want. It doesn't matter what the prophets say. It doesn't matter what the scriptures say.
I that's your choice. You go for it.
That's what you want. You go for it. The problem is is the advocacy for these things
and and and when it spreads out and begins to permeate the culture, especially of the church, it's already
going like wildfire throughout our our western culture in in the United States here and beyond. But in the church now,
that to me, that's where the things you got to draw the line. the advocacy for these things. This type of preaching,
this type of twisting of uh wrestling with scriptures to try and and and say
there are no consequences and there is no order of God. There is the traditional family is not the only way to go.
And I can say that because I don't come from a traditional family. My parents split when I was six, but they still
taught the ideal, right? Right? And we grew up the same way where it's like, "No, you need to get married to someone of the opposite
sex, have children, hang on to your covenants, go to church, and and be part of the gospel and and rever God. You
still go with the ideal." And that's not what I see here with this with this organization. So, two things that I wanted to point out here because this
podcast is about awareness. Number one is the organization itself. Just be careful. Please be careful and try and understand the messaging that is being
brought forward here. And secondly, beyond this organization, just the messaging that's going out there about just it's just all love, right? Love
man, you know, hippie, put the peace sign up. And that's what peacekeeping [music] is, right? It's all love. No, it's not. It's not. That's not what
peace is. Peace ultimately is bringing [music] everybody to the order to a natural law or and andor a spiritual
law. That's where peace is found and not outside of that. You can't have peace ultimately outside of that. Thanks for listening.
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